I didn't know we had so many mouldy food experts in here.

:)

im not having a go, but its just common sense isn't it... everyone knows that an onion looks pretty much the same however long you leave it.
thats why it's nuts that so many people fall for the overblown nonsense that they watch on the telly.

Interesting, I was just at McDonalds a couple hours ago. I eat there probably on the average of once a week.

About two weeks ago while I was at McDonalds, I noticed a homeless guy that was standing on the corner holding a sign that said he was hungry. I watched as he folded his sign in half, stuffed it in an old Elmo backback and walked over into McDonalds. He ordered a happy meal special. He reached in the box and pulled something out as he turned. He handed it to the little boy in line next to him. It was the free toy trinket that came with the meal.

I have been thinking about that on/off since it happened. I wonder how many lives of good people McDonalds has saved because it is affordable? I couldn't help but feel a great deal of gratitude to the McDonalds corporation.

McDonalds has single handidly:

- Vastly driven down the cost of food around the world.
- Employed millions of people to serve it.
- Kept countless hundreds of thousands of family farms in operation.
- They continue to rank very well in relation to other restaurants in all health code inspections.
- Given millions upon millions of dollars to charities.
- They have set standard after standard for business practices in their field.
- They have succeeded where hundreds have failed. (and they continue to succeed at it).

I can't help but think that in the world of Doritios and Fruit loops - that a McDonalds meal might be the healthiest thing that some kids eat all week. In most places in the US, McDonalds buys beef and chicken, from the exact same supplier that your local grocery store does.

If the food didn't taste good - people wouldn't eat there. What they eat there, isn't that much different from what most Americans eat regularly at home. Hamburgers, potatoes, chicken, fish - it's all similar stuff. None of the nutrition studies have shown McDonalds to be any worst than what most Americans eat at home. No one has been able to show much wrong with it at all. It all comes from the same food chain that your grocery store foods do.

But people do love to pick on the successful - always have.

...next week in Foo - We Love Walmart! ;-)

I wonder how many lives of good people McDonalds has saved because it is affordable?

I wonder how many lives of good people it has damaged through helping to make them obese? (Spoken from my own overweight position, which I managed to achieve without McDonald's.)

Do you use much from this list when cooking at home?

Burgers
100% Pure Beef. No additives, fillers, binders, preservatives or flavour enhancers. Just pure forequarter and flank. A little salt and pepper is added to season after cooking.

Buns
Wheat Flour, Water, Sugar, Yeast, Sesame Seeds, Vegetable Oil (Rapeseed), Salt, Wheat Fibre, Soya Flour, Emulsifiers (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids, Mono- and Diacetyl Tartaric Acid Esters of Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids, Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate), Palm Oil, Preservative (Calcium Propionate), Flour Treatment Agent (Ascorbic Acid).

Big Mac Sauce
Water, Vegetable Oil (Soya Bean Oil), Diced Gherkin, Sugar, Spirit Vinegar, Modified Maize Starch, Free Range Egg Yolk, Mustard Seed, Salt, Preservatives (Acetic Acid, Potassium Sorbate), Mustard Flour, Stabiliser (Xanthan Gum), High Fructose Corn Syrup, Natural Flavourings (contains Soya), Dried Garlic, Spice, Colour (Paprika Extract)

Cheese Slices
Vegetarian Cheddar (51%), Water, Butter, Vegetarian Cheese (9%), Whey Powder, Milk Proteins, Emulsifying Salts (Trisodium Citrate, Citric Acid), Natural Cheese Flavouring, Salt, Preservative (Sorbic Acid), Colour (Natural Carotenes, Paprika Extract), Anti-caking Agent (Soya Lecithin).

Dill pickle
Cucumbers, Water, Salt, Vinegar, Dill Pickle Blends (contains Gum Arabic, Extractives of Dill and other spices, Extractives of Turmeric), Calcium Chloride, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate.

All above data is sampled from McDonald's current UK website. They promote it as though it is healthy.

>>But people do love to pick on the successful - always have.

Yep, that's true all through life.

Interesting points that you raise there too, but thankfully there isn't a franchise by me or at least within 18 miles of me (that I know of) and the last time I was within walking distance of one was when I was in Hong Kong at Christmas, I ended up in Subway as the view of the harbour was better!

Unfortunately where I used to live, and lot's of places throughout the Uk, people get stigmatised about working at McD's as it was often the last point in the Job centre queue that people wanted to end up.

We all have choices though, and free will, we aren't made to walk through the golden arches to feed...

Cheers,
MRb

All of a sudden a strong desire for a Big Mac just hit me. Thanks a lot BDW. :)

Free Range Egg Yolk

I always try to find the good in most situations and there it is, at least the chickens were happy.

lawman, me too. Salivating for some fries right now.

French Fries:
Potatoes, vegetable oil (canola oil, hydrogenated soybean oil, natural beef flavor [wheat and milk derivatives]*, citric acid [preservative]), dextrose, sodium acid
pyrophosphate (maintain color), salt. Prepared in vegetable oil (Canola oil, corn oil, soybean oil, hydrogenated soybean oil with TBHQ and citric acid added to
preserve freshness). Dimethylpolysiloxane added as an antifoaming agent.
CONTAINS: WHEAT AND MILK *(Natural beef flavor contains hydrolyzed wheat and hydrolyzed milk as starting ingredients).

Dimethylpolysiloxane is used as a matter of safety to keep the oil from foaming, [Lisa McComb, who handles global media relations for McDonald's,] says. The chemical is a form of silicone also used in cosmetics and Silly Putty.

Read more: [sfgate.com...]

Do you use much from this list when cooking at home?

Yes.

Burgers

This is called "meat". Humans have been consuming it for a long time...

Buns

This is "grain"... see above...

Big Mac Sauce

Salad dressing... not my favorite part of the McD experience, but I use it on salads all the time. You do, too. :)

Cheese Slices

Dairy product. We all know how essential that is to good health.

Dill pickle

A Pickle is a pickle. Grandma made them the same way, and this should be a non-issue.

All above data is sampled from McDonald's current UK website. They promote it as though it is healthy.

It is... ordinary food from ordinary sources and, if consumed in ordinary quantities AND EXERCISE is ordinarily applied, if perfectly healthy.

Else, give up meat, grains, eggs, salads, veggies, and pickles, too.

All these rants appear to be British related and that's okay. Meanwhile, give me a break! The way to vote any displeasure is with the pocketbook... ie. go somewhere else. No one holds a gun to the head and says "eat at Micky D, or Burger King or Jack in the Box".

Odd thing is that McD (and the others listed above) have better nutritional values than most public schools offer their students. That's where the real "rage against nutrition" should be applied.

Edit: As to fats... Fish and Chips? Duh?

Wondering when you'd chime in on this Tangor....

Don't apples contain cyanide. :)

Odd thing is that McD (and the others listed above) have better nutritional values than most public schools offer their students.

Um... are you entirely sure about that?

Don't apples contain cyanide. :)

Not the torus ones, at least not the dual torus, bite into one of those though and they can make you dizzy.

Don't apples contain cyanide.

Peach pits maybe. Or was that almonds?

Green walnuts will suck the oxygen out of a farm pond though. Get enough of them and put them in a tow sack. That's a gunnysack. A large canvas bag that allows plenty of air flow.

Fill that bag half full then get a big hammer and beat the heck out of it. I like a 32 ounce Estwing. Pulverize the walnuts. Throw them in the water and wait.

Then take your net and scoop up fish. And call your friends and tell them to come on over. It's a fish fry night.

Um... are you entirely sure about that?

Speaking for the menus at public schools in Houston, Texas, yes. It's cheaper to feed the little tykes frozen pizza, frozen chicken nuggets, frozen french fries, frozen burgers and frozen taquitos, all of which are FRIED except for the burgers which are "fried" on a grill, than actually cook food... after all, the cooks are unionized public employees interested only in an absurd pension instead of nurturing good health in children.

No lemons
No Turnips
No Leeks
No Onions
No Apples
No Peaches
No... heck, pick a bunch and still find "no"...

I'm in Topeka, Kansas Tangor. I was born and partially raised here and am proud of it. Our school system is district 501 and my second wife's children attended there every day.

I grew up in Texas though. I often say I'm from there, even though technically I'm not. It's not my birth place. It's where I became a man and that holds more weight with me.

Texas is a huge petro-chemical state. When the oil's not pumping they slash budgets. School's are always the first to get hit. Why that philosophy is allowed to prevail I will never know but when you're cutting budgets the education of your future leaders is always the first one to fall. I've watched it happen and written my congressmen ad nauseum.

I'm not disputing your claim that school lunches there have less nutritional value than Micky. They may well have. Don't apply that claim nationally though. Our kids.. her kids rather, mine by proxy.. are fed well. Give me a minute and I'll cite references.

No doubt that is correct, wyweb, but most is processed food in some form or fashion... has to be to meet the time constraints and numbers served and the labor force available... and McD is NOT processed food. Minor quibble, but that's the way the budget bounces.

and McD is NOT processed food

Not in the strictest sense of the terms... no, it's not. When a single order of fries can give me 350 percent of my daily sodium intake, or one of their cherry pies can knock my carbs off the chart it might as well be processed though. Bad food is bad food in any language, no?

I don't eat at McDonalds. I get some fries and give them to my dog sometimes and I hit the drive through to get some coffee if I'm running late. I'm 50 years old and starting to think more about my health these days. It may already be too late but on my list of places to go to eat McDonalds doesn't even register. Anyone who doesn't already know that, doesn't know about their track record, simply isn't informed.

Being uninformed, in this day and age, with the resources we have available.. man, that's just not an option.

I've got a girl waiting on me and I need to get out of here. This has been an amusing conversation but it's been kind of pointless too. Like kissing your kid sister or something. We've established that McDonalds sucks, which is good. But now it's your turn.

Reject their product. Don't buy it.

That's how you hurt a company. Tell your friends.

The calories in a Big mac have dropped 30% since 1970. They are now down to about 540 calories. That is far less than the average burger at any one of the gourmet burger joints that are popping up on every street corner in the US these days. I paid $19.50 for a burger, fries, a drink, and a Shake not long ago at a fancy burger joint (take away).

[mcdonalds.com...]

Detail Nutrition in McDonalds menu:
[nutrition.mcdonalds.com...]

Do it... meanwhile, me and three others are heading over to McD's... :)

It's not that Mc'D or other fast food is inherently unhealthy. It's not.

The moderation factor is out the window with people.
They want fast, easy, and cheap. So they eat that way all the time.

Decades ago, cyclamates were banned when they injected rats with 1000's of times any reasonable dose and they got cancer. (the replacement is likely worse) Same principle to a lesser degree with the "supersize me' movie.

Does McDonalds mean people can't take any responsibility for what they put in their mouths?

All of a sudden a strong desire for a Big Mac just hit me.

Precisely, that's because they have successfully conditioned you. ;)

This is "grain"

What this? Salt, Wheat Fibre, Soya Flour, Emulsifiers (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids, Mono- and Diacetyl Tartaric Acid Esters of Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids, Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate), Palm Oil, Preservative (Calcium Propionate), Flour Treatment Agent (Ascorbic Acid).

A Pickle is a pickle. Grandma made them the same way, and this should be a non-issue.

I am sure that most grandmas would have struggled to find the Gum Arabic, Extractives of Dill and other spices, Extractives of Turmeric, Calcium Chloride, Potassium Sorbate and Sodium Benzoate to add to their burgers.

It is... ordinary food from ordinary sources

Is that classed as ordinary food in the USA? You seriously mean that you consider that to be OK and yet you don't allow haggis?

[bbc.co.uk...]

Is there that owre his French ragout
Or olio that wad staw a sow,
Or fricassee wad mak her spew
Wi' perfect scunner,
Looks down wi' sneering, scornfu' view
On sic a dinner?

Poor devil! see him ower his trash,
As feckless as a wither'd rash,
His spindle shank, a guid whip-lash,
His nieve a nit;
Thro' bloody flood or field to dash,
O how unfit!

Shame on you! ;)

Precisely, that's because they have successfully conditioned you.

maybe its not the people who like McDonalds who are conditioned, but the people who hate them?

most people just accept them for what they are -- a burger joint. but some people develop an antipathy for them that is almost religious after watching too many documentaries and movies.

I like McD's, I have a happy meal & a snack wrap once a week its nice and the toy provides a good 30 seconds worth of entertainment! :)

Not the healthiest lunch in the world but I'm happy and play sports / jogging so all is well here :)

Nah, I don't think so.

The calories in a Big mac have dropped 30% since 1970.

Yeah.. and I'm sure you're aware why as well.

Several factors.. bogus litigation on the part of aggressive ambulance chasers looking for their next meal ticket who were trying to blame McDonalds for making their clients fat, or who claimed their coffee was too hot. Get hauled into court enough times over stuff like that, even if it's BS, and it might be time to take a second look at your business model. Just to make sure.

McDonalds is a big target and we're a nation of litigators. Settle with them and you're in the bank in a big way.

Other fast food cartels ramping up aggressive ad campaigns and indirectly pointing fingers at McDonalds. It was subtle, but the inflection, the implication, was clear. Our product is way better. Subway comes to mind. There were others though. "I've lost 30 pounds eating here every day." The PR spin alone put McDonalds in high gear. And it wasn't actually a spin either. It was accurate, albeit somewhat enthusiastic, information being aimed at consumers who were finally demanding choices. And doing comparison shopping. Reading labels for a change.

The web's been no small player in all of this either. I can look you up now (using the term you figuratively here). I can check you out. There is a wealth of resources available to me now that I didn't have before. I can compare your product with others and do so with just a few key strokes. The internet is levelling the playing field simply by empowering consumers. If you have an inferior product, more people know about it now.

Combine all of that with this in general health consciousness thing that kicked in a while back and yeah, it was time to change.

And they're making good moves too. Their stock is strong and analysts confidence is high.*

I still won't eat there though. Just because they can throw a hamburger out the window in two minutes doesn't make it the right thing to eat.

*[quote.morningstar.com ]

> who claimed their coffee was too hot.

In that incident, the coffee thermostat was broken. The manager had had several written complaints and he had not fixed the machine. That case is now the text book case of public opinion shaping and influencing used in poly sci courses throughout the US.
[en.wikipedia.org...]

> Yeah.. and I'm sure you're aware why as well.

Leaner cuts of beef. It was not uncommon in the 60-70's for regular burger to be only 65-70% lean. Much of it now is in the 80% category.

MD's also has cut the size of a big mac considerably.

maybe its not the people who like McDonalds who are conditioned, but the people who hate them?

most people just accept them for what they are -- a burger joint. but some people develop an antipathy for them that is almost religious after watching too many documentaries and movies.

Fair point. I would probably add that there is also a jingoistic component as well. Foreigners associated McDonald's with the USA and it becomes a convenient spleen for them to vent for real or imagined controversies.

Our neighbour takes their kids to McD's because it's affordable. It is seen as a treat out - some fun. Interestingly, the mother is a vegetarian.

Personally, I don't like the burgers they serve there. My visits to their restaurants are in the region of once or twice every ten years, and that's been because there was little else open.

On one occasion, I was visiting a small town and went to look for lunch. I wanted something quick and easy as I was on a retail mission for clothes. I found, pizza, burgers, and fried chicken establishments of differing brands. I could not find one single place that specialised in serving healthy food. That town must be crying out of something more exciting and interesting!

I'm off down the allotment to sow some veg.

I am sure that most grandmas would have struggled to find the Gum Arabic, Extractives of Dill and other spices, Extractives of Turmeric, Calcium Chloride, Potassium Sorbate and Sodium Benzoate to add to their burgers.

Without going over the top, let's look at the "products" listed above (from wiki you know who):

Calcium Chloride

As an ingredient, it is listed as a permitted food additive in the European Union for use as a sequestrant and firming agent with the E number E509, and considered as generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.[8] The average intake of calcium chloride as food additives has been estimated to be 160–345 mg/day for individuals.[9]

As a firming agent calcium chloride is used in canned vegetables, in firming soy bean curds into tofu and in producing a caviar substitute from vegetable or fruit juices.[10] It is commonly used as an electrolyte in sports drinks and other beverages including Smartwater and Nestle bottled water. The extremely salty taste of calcium chloride is used to flavor pickles while not increasing the food's sodium content. Calcium chloride's freezing-point depression properties are used, for example, in Cadbury Caramilk chocolate bars to retard freezing of the caramel.

In brewing beer, calcium chloride is sometimes used to correct mineral deficiencies in the brewing water. It affects flavor and chemical reactions during the brewing process, and can also affect yeast function during fermentation. Calcium chloride is sometimes added to processed milk to restore the natural balance between calcium and protein in casein for the purposes of making cheese such as brie, Pélardon and stilton.

What makes tofu, cheese, and other things such as sports drinks, beer, a pickles tasty (and safe).

Gum arabic:

Gum arabic, also known as gum acacia, chaar gund, char goond or meska, is a natural gum made of hardened sap taken from two species of the acacia tree; Acacia senegal and Acacia seyal. The gum is harvested commercially from wild trees throughout the Sahel from Senegal and Sudan to Somalia, although it has been historically cultivated in Arabia and West Asia. Gum arabic is a complex mixture of polysaccharides and glycoproteins that is used primarily in the food industry as a stabilizer. It is edible and has E number E414.

Used for centuries in food prep, fairly common and easily obtainable.

As for "extractives of Dill, Other Spices, or Tumeric" these are, again, commonly available and commonly used food sources.

Potassium Sorbate:

Potassium sorbate is the potassium salt of sorbic acid. Its primary use is as a food preservative (E number 202).[3] Potassium sorbate is effective in a variety of applications including food, wine, and personal care products.
Potassium sorbate is used to inhibit molds and yeasts in many foods, such as cheese, wine, yogurt, dried meats, apple cider, soft drinks and fruit drinks, and baked goods.[4] It can also be found in the ingredients list of many dried fruit products. In addition, herbal dietary supplement products generally contain potassium sorbate, which acts to prevent mold and microbes and to increase shelf life, and is used in quantities at which there are no known adverse health effects, over short periods of time[5]. Labeling of this preservative on ingredient statements reads as "potassium sorbate". Also, it is used in many personal care products to inhibit the development of microorganisms for shelf stability. Some manufacturers are using this preservative as a replacement for parabens.

Also known as "wine stabilizer", potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will render any surviving yeast incapable of multiplying. Yeast living at that moment can continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines, and some hard ciders but may be added to table wines which exhibit difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining.

Completely natural (and edible) product.

Sodium Benzoate:

Sodium benzoate is produced by the neutralization of benzoic acid with sodium hydroxide.[3] Benzoic acid is detectable at low levels in cranberries, prunes, greengage plums, cinnamon, ripe cloves, and apples. Though benzoic acid is a more effective preservative, sodium benzoate is more commonly used as a food additive because benzoic acid does not dissolve well in water.[3] Concentration as a preservative is limited by the FDA in the U.S. to 0.1% by weight. The International Programme on Chemical Safety found no adverse effects in humans at doses of 647–825 mg/kg of body weight per day.[4][5]

Since this is also used in the manufacture of fireworks, perhaps not the "best" of the preservatives available, but is quite useful at the levels allowed in food production. It is a naturally occurring product, and routinely consumed world wide...

Don't let the fancy scientific names throw you off. These are food items, found in food "forever" and have been consumed by humans for nearly as equal a length of time.

That said: Over reliance on any single food source for nutrition is faulty... and over-indulgence at anytime is Fail.