Forum Moderators: phranque

Message Too Old, No Replies

Trademark Bullying

Being trademark bullied 2 weeks a year since 4plus years

         

jim_knopf

1:51 pm on Jan 13, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi there,

last resource for me is your place here. I found in the past always some pointers or advise that helped to set me straight one way or another.

I try to make it as short as possible. I do run - amongst others - operate a website that covers a specific activity that is around for about 40 years.
I did it first for 2-3 years as a sub-domain of another - related topic - website but this got to much in terms of traffic as well, in second year the harassment started by some watchdog company claim to speak in behalf of the even organizer.

The claim I use materials (images / videos / audio) that are copyrighted to the company they represent.

I do have obtained and - after the second year of troubles - reached out individual to the different sources that supply me with that materials to verify + ensure that I'm in title to use this materials.
Each of them confirmed by phone and by e-mail that all is cool and I use what they give me is well within their term of service etc., etc.

The watchdog company claims.

- I was at beginning hosting in Europe, now with the big G by IP in USA. (I am not in USA nor in Europe located, domain is registered at my address)

first from UK office now from US that - I copy and past URL's and names removed:

We write on behalf of BlaBLaBlaBla who own and control all rights associated with the conduct, promotion and management of whatever, including but not limited to, all related intellectual property, broadcast and footage rights worldwide. We have been authorised by BlaBlaBla to send this letter to you on their behalf. 

We have noticed that your website, www[dot]vvvv.com is displaying, promoting and/or offering audio, visual and/or audio-visual content from the Whatever. All copyright in such images are vested in ###.

As you have neither sought nor obtained permission from --- to use this content your present use is a clear infringement of the --- rights and patently infringes the copyright held in that content. Please immediately cease all such infringements on any and all of the web sites you own and/or control and confirm to us via email that you have done so.

Nothing in this letter is intended or shall be construed to constitute an express or implied waiver of any of --- rights or remedies, including any rights or remedies in respect of infringement not explicitly stated, whether current or in the future, all of which are expressly reserved.

Formal Declaration

I hereby state that ! owns and controls the exclusive rights to the audio, visual and/or audio-visual content referenced above and that ---- is authorized to act on behalf of ####### with respect to internet monitoring and compliance related to infringement of such rights.

I hereby state that I have a good faith belief that use of such A/V content in the manner complained of is not authorised by #######, its agents, or the law.


I, Joe Doe , as a representative of BlaBlaBla hereby digitally sign this e-mail message under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America with the additional statement under penalty of perjury that the information in the notice is accurate.

Please note that nothing in this letter is intended or shall be construed to constitute an express or implied waiver of any of #######'s rights or remedies, all of which are expressly reserved.


As aid, everything I use is being approved and allowed by the sources or - for example videos - are from YouTube, other users , not me and embedded within their TOS.

I'm in touch with the watchdog from day 1, first notice received I called them instant.

They never can give me any URL's, they never can describe items in question, they ask me to remove YouTube videos that are out there for xx years with xxx'xxx vies that do not belong to me and available to be embedded and so on.

Additional I like to state that we have no high page views in general like "big players", we are in no way aggressive, promote or link to any offensive etc. targets.
Strictly event related, not abusive, spammy etc.

So for the last years they shut me down a facebook page and a twitter stream with xxxxx followers.
facebook no chance to talk and have them look at it. Got a new page and that seem to be somewhat blocked.

Twitter I got re-evaluated and re-opend as they seen we not do anything bad.

However this year again shut down and no reply, Twitter API revoked and the site gets
other as by the spiders of the watchdog basically no traffic anymore.

I'm not making any $ with the site and I'm also not worried about the hosting as I informed them up front and the excessive spidering by the watchdog does not hurt in terms of server performance.
At hosting before they would bring your server to the knees so hard the hit the site.

I would like to fight that whole thing for the principle as I did neither do anything bad or acted in anyway abusive in general or in that case particular.

What can I do?

jim_knopf

1:53 pm on Jan 13, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Oh yes - forgot: sorry on poor english writing/grammar - that did not change since my first post here... so much work, so little time to learn+ improve not living in a english lingo envirnoment

mromero

10:19 pm on Jan 13, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



To me the solution is clear. Go out and take your own images and videos. End of problemo!

jim_knopf

10:33 pm on Jan 13, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This is not about the images or videos - we are in title to use them so why should we not take that option?

After all we been thru the process to be screened by the originators AND after the send year even been in contact direct - not just with an sign-up for a newsletter or such.

In particular after we proof to them that, refer the source - which by the way is also named and clearly visible at the posts made.

This gives them right to threaten under the law and by doing so make already a false statement.

What's next - you get an mail saying the color you use is wrong on your website and you have to change it?

I think you missed the point mromero and the principal behind that behavior from that people.

Thanks for your reply but we consider that the easy way out.
If ones not stand up for something he will fall for everything....

LifeinAsia

11:25 pm on Jan 13, 2014 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



They never can give me any URL's,
Tell them not to get back to you until they have specifics. Without specifics, all notices get automatically deleted.

they never can describe items in question,
See above.

they ask me to remove YouTube videos ... do not belong to me
Tell them they do not belong to you and to spend their time chasing down the right people.

If they continue to harass you, talk to a lawyer about filing a harassment lawsuit. If you know 100% that you are in the right, it may be worth a few hundred dollars to have a lawyer respond stating that their accusations have no merit and that you will file a lawsuit if they continue their harassment.

jim_knopf

12:02 am on Jan 14, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks, did do all of that yet for the 4th year in a row same thing....
On the website I dont care so much as I run a clean ship in straight line - they know that and therefore not take any action.

If I would real violate their rights dont you think they would push and get me of the net, approach my hosting provider etc.? After 4 years? I think the intent of the other site is pretty clear.

But they use the same to approach social media and have accounts disabled/suspended and as you may know the chances to even lay down your site of the the situation to twitter, facebook is about zero.

I do have to say that Google is not responsive to their demands after reviewing.

A few hundred dollar - yeah, I would be willing to that just for the principal.
However, 5000,- to start (talking to several different attorneys) is another thing!

I guess that's why the USPTO describes it, I quote:

"A trademark “bully” could be described as a trademark owner that uses its trademark rights to harass and intimidate another business beyond what the law might be reasonably interpreted to allow" ie

small businesses may be harmed by litigation tactics by corporations attempting to enforce trademark rights beyond a reasonable interpretation of the scope of the rights granted to the trademark

And to make sure all understand: this is NOT about making money. This is about somebody can claim you doing somethings unlawful and restriction on choices that one can make (within the framework of tos's or other granted privileges by third parties that have the right to distribute their materials as they wish)

LifeinAsia

12:09 am on Jan 14, 2014 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



If you can't find a lawyer willing to write a letter for less than $5,000, you're not looking hard enough.

Going forward with the lawsuit- that's definitely more expensive. But you include those expenses in the damages you try to collect.

And more likely, a letter from a lawyer may be the end of things once they realize it's not worth the effort/expense to try to bully you any more.

jim_knopf

12:32 am on Jan 14, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



OK, I did not look for a lawyer to write a letter but explained the situation and the 5K was what came back from them (lawyers).

Musicarl

4:44 am on Jan 14, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If this threat comes only in the form of an email, ignore it. If they're really going to sue you, you'll get some kind of certified letter.

This clearly bothers you, so for your peace of mind, find a lawyer as suggested earlier. Even if this goes away without legal assistance, having a lawyer handy will put you at ease next time you have an issue.

Also wondering if this is a scam. It sounds like they want you to reply to the email as a way to transfer IP rights to them.

jim_knopf

12:57 pm on Jan 14, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Musicarl _ I will do as you suggested for now. I thought the same as I have the domain since 2011 and published content covering the same topic 3 years before that as an sub-domain of another website.

Yeah, it bothers me that I'm basically accused of stealing even after I pointed out to them my sources.
It would be their job to very that, right.
Isn't it innocent until proven guilty?
And for years with legal threads and "under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America" - yeah that bothers big time.

Can you evaluate on the IP rights? I communicate with them by a gmail account. The IP belongs to the big G I believe as I use Google Enterprise Apps to publish.

I know my social media stream I can forget with xx'xxx followers as Twitter does not even react... :(

piatkow

5:46 pm on Jan 14, 2014 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I think you are confusing the two meanings of IP.
Musicarl meant "intellectual property" not "internet protocol"

I am not a lawyer and don't fully understand your explanation but my personal feeling is that "The reply given in Arkell v. Pressdram" may be appropriate.

jim_knopf

6:38 pm on Jan 14, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Sorry - my bad... :( - quiet some confused here to a certain degree with all of that.
My website is now down to ZERO traffic minus the spiders they use that hit 15-20 pages in a second repeatadly from different IP's (proxy's I assume...)

I could not transfer any "IP" anyway as they are not mine. As all is watermarked with the "IP" owners name + URL (modified/watermarked with "IP" owners permission) they could go to them.
Musicarl is right with his assumption in that case - scam.
I'll look up your reference - Thanks for the pointer

jim_knopf

9:39 am on Jan 15, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



@piatkow - wished I known that earlier (Arkell v. Pressdram) - I love to send them a reference and that I carry the same feelings for them.... :)

londrum

10:45 am on Jan 15, 2014 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



if you're not making any money with it, and you're not getting very many page views, why don't you just take them off.
i know you're saying that you're not the one at fault, and you probably want to have the satisfaction of beating them, but sometimes you've just got to ask yourself if it's really worth all the hassle and stress. what are you actually going to get out of it, if you win?

jim_knopf

11:19 am on Jan 15, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



@londrum - I dont like to be called a thief and to me it's a thing of principals.

They have since at least3 years all info, I called them - very calm and asked for verification.

So they bully because they are big + have $'s and that gives them the right to make false statements?

To me there is a point where you either got to stand up for somethings you believe in or fall for everything.

They can make one phone-call, one e-mail and say sorry, mistake and all is fine.

IF my website is crap it's regulates itself by being nowhere
found.
But me showing up next to them in the SE results is pissing them off - so they should get better by working their stuff and not gag a little nobody - at the end I do nothing bad to them, their event etc.

After the years it's clear they want to monopolize and by doing so censor and gag independent media, no matter how big or small.
I know what they are charging to become "accredited" plus I know what they are charging to the different sources I receive material to publish from PLUS I researched last year and got in touch with SEVERAL folks that I want to call victims of that sort of behavior.

They always do the same. I'm aware of another stubborn person that went all the way in UK and he won. Just needs time and $'s.
The later I dont have but I gained the last 2 days some support from the legal site that is willing to help WITHOUT 5K on the table before doing some.

I will only reply here or post updates, I did not come here to spread my pissing contest, just looking for opinions other as giving in and "running away".
I started a page on the website in question with the whole story + the timeline + documents exchanged/communication and it seems there is some interest looking at who's visiting (not just "them")....
After all - there are not everywhere James Clapper's with most truthful, or least untruthful statements.

tbear

3:14 pm on Jan 15, 2014 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Good luck, jim_knopf!
More people should stand up and be counted, in my opinion!
I look forward to hearing of your success!

jim_knopf

7:03 pm on Jan 15, 2014 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Well, first feedback now from Twitter. The suspended claiming I use images from "them" (the trademark bully).
I assume "they" send their nice "under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America" as bulk-mail out.
I seen twitter yesterday, IP in S.F., for about 5 minutes on the website, surfing pages + spend some time on Trademark Bully page.

Now they ask me to change the beginning of profile with "Not associated with blablab" to re-open the stream.
I can except that despite the fact that less as 2 inches away in font size 60 is written the same....

No more word on artwork / avatar etc. used.....
So they may re-open and I get my 12'000 followers back I had since +/- 2010 or so.

That's good as the event is over in 4 days... lol
Same procedure as every year.