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What Distro would you recommend?

A look at various Linux distributions.

         

mack

3:48 pm on Aug 24, 2020 (gmt 0)

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In a recent thread we discussed the Linux operating system and what makes it viable (or not) for different users.

[webmasterworld.com...]

The consensus was that whilst some people could be using Linux as their full time operating system, for many it was simply not practical. There are many limitations such as a potential learning curve and compatibility of various pieces of software.

Another point that came up during the previous discussion was the various different versions, or “distributions” of Linux. For many people, this causes a lot of confusion. Not only is it a change moving to Linux but you also need to decide what distribution to go with.

In this thread, I thought it would be a good idea to try and discuss the most popular distributions (distros) and try and cover some pros and cons for each. I will list my top 4… please feel free to add your own opinions and choices.

1) Kubuntu: [kubuntu.org...]
Kubuntu is based on Ubuntu. Under the hood, they are practically the same operating system with different user interfaces. Ubuntu is a long-standing very established and stable distribution. Kubuntu makes good use of this stable and reliable OS and ads it’s own twist.

The name Kubuntu is derived from “K desktop environment Ubuntu”. This means it is Ubuntu but with the KDE desktop. [kde.org...]

The KDE desktop is now a very stable desktop that would be very familiar to anyone who is coming from a windows machine and perhaps trying Linux for the first time. It has a menu button at the bottom left of the taskbar a lot like the Windows Start menu.

It comes with Libre Office (A fork of Open Office), Thunderbird Email (from Mozilla) and the Firefox web browser. From the start, you are able to get running and carry out day to day tasks.

When it comes to installing additional software Kunubtu has an “app store” where you can search for software (all applications in the app store are free) In Kubuntu the app store is called “Discover”.

If the piece of software you want to use is not on Discover you have other options. All *buntu distros support installing packages from .deb files. You can also build packages from source. This is however an advanced process and not something we will cover in this thread.

2) Ubuntu: [ubuntu.com...]
Ubuntu is probably the most popular variant of the Linux operating system on the desktop. Ubuntu has been in development since 2004. The default desktop environment on Ubuntu is Gnome [gnome.org...]

Gnome was a longstanding addition to Ubuntu, but for a while they switched to a desktop that was based on Gnome, but operated very differently called Unity [en.wikipedia.org...] . I am personally glad they reverted back to Gnome 3 for the current release.

Ubuntu, by default, runs the Libra Office Suite, Firefox web browser and Thunderbird email client. It has an app store called “Software Centre” where you can search for and download from 10s of thousands of apps. Like Kubuntu, you can also install from .deb files or build from source.

3) Linux Mint: [linuxmint.com...]
Linux mint is another Ubuntu-based Linux Distribution. Even although Linux Mint has Ubuntu at its core it is probably aesthetically the least Ubuntu like OS (that is Ubuntu based).

Linux Mint has 2 different Desktop environments. You can choose to install one or both, although you need to chose what version you want to install as default when you download Linux Mint. The desktop environments are Mate [mate-desktop.org...] and Cinnamon [en.wikipedia.org...]

It also has a third desktop called Xfce [xfce.org...] that is designed to be very lightweight and requires fewer resources than some other desktops.

Linux Mint has gained a lot of popularity over the past couple of years and perhaps simply by offering more choices in terms of desktop environments is part of the reason. It’s strange how some Ubuntu-based distros have one name per desktop environment release yet Linux Mint is simply Linux Mins with multiple environments.

Linux Mint also ships with Firefox, Thunderbird and Libre office.

It also has an “app store” called Mint Software Manager where you can search for and install any other required software.

4) Open Suse: [opensuse.org...]
Open Suse is not Ubuntu based, It is RPM based (a bit like RedHat) I first used a Suse system back in 2003 and it was a real headache. Thankfully things have moved on and it is not a LOT more stable.

It contains the WPS Office suite, Firefox web browser and Kmail email client.

Open Suse (and all Suse variants) have a brilliant software manager called Yast it allows you to search for software and effectively manage you’re installed software.

---

No matter what distro you decide to use, you are running the Linux OS. The distro you use will come down to personal choice and preference. It would be good to see what others can add to this.

Mack.

engine

4:04 pm on Aug 24, 2020 (gmt 0)

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This is really helpful, thank you Mack.
I shall be doing some investigation.

LifeinAsia

4:20 pm on Aug 24, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I haven't delved into desktop Linux, but have been using server Linux (Ubuntu) for several years.

Windows servers- I could spend half a day or more installing the O/S with all the Windows updates/patches and requirements to reboot between several of them (and that's BEFORE I can load any of the software/configurations I need for that particular server). Then there's often a required reboot for ongoing updates/patches. And the horrendous (several minutes) it takes each time you have to reboot- meanwhile users can't access the web server or applications can't access the DB server.

Ubuntu servers- I can install the O/S with all the updates and upgrades in less than half an hour. I can't seem to remember any updates/upgrades that required a reboot. And reboots (on the rare occasion I need to do one) usually take less than 20 seconds.

Based on my experience with the server versions, I'm definitely willing to try out the desktop version. Just need to find some time (and an old PC or laptop) to play with it.

mack

5:02 pm on Aug 24, 2020 (gmt 0)

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LifeinAsia, For me, it was a little bit different. I was running Kubuntu on the desktop then decided to build a Ubuntu Server to act as a network server. It is certainly a lot easier to work with Ubuntu server when you have a basic understanding of how it should work.

Mack.

graeme_p

5:39 pm on Aug 24, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I use OpenSuSE with KDE. I would recommend it for Yast which is a lot more than a software manager, its an extensive admin GUI, and you can use a text version of it from the command line - same layout and menus, just plain text and keyboard driven. I do not actually think its better than the software managers for Debian derived distros, but its other functionality is unmatched.

The other advantage is that it defaults to the btrfs filesystem which supports snapshots, so if something goes horribly wrong with an upgrade or something you can roll back to the last good snapshot. Put /home on a different partition (or drive) and you can roll back the OS install without rolling back your data.

I tried a number of desktops with SuSE, but ended up back with KDE, because the file manager is so good (and the file manager works best with a matching desktop because it tends to integrate with it).

I would tend to recommend SuSE to experienced users rather than newbies though. A much smaller community than Ubuntu or Mint, and forums are not as good.

For the Debian based distros I tend to install the Synaptic software manager. Its less user friendly than Discover or Ubuntu Software Centre but more powerful.

I am considering trying (Debian based) MX Linux (I used its predecessor MEPIS in the past) and would suggest Antix for really old machines (essentially the same thing in a very lightweight configuration).

I am also looking at high security distros like Qubes. My current set up is pretty secure, but if it can be improved I am interested.

I am also looking at Manjaro and the rolling release version of OpenSuSE (Tumbleweed) as i like the idea of never upgrading again and always having the latest software. I think Manjaro probably has the edge because it is more stable whereas Tumbleweed can be a bit experimental at times and things break.

Other distributions I have used: Mint, Puppy (fast, lightweight, designed to run from USB), MEPIS (paid for, now dead - but MX Linux is a community successor), PCLinuxOS, Mandriva (also dead, also has community successors). All have their good points.

I am not keen on Mint: it requires a reinstall to upgrade to a new version, and there are other annoyances. Very helpful forums though.

I think for many people the choice of desktop is more important than the choice of distribution. and most distributions. My favourite is KDE (both easy to get started with, and configurable once you are comfortable, and very good for working with remote files, very pretty with flashy desktop effects like desktop cubes). I have recently tried XFCE (lighter than KDE, but not as good for remote files, and not as pretty), Enlightenment (very pretty, but does not fit with my workflow), Budgie (nice, but too limited in terms of available panel applets etc.). On a older machine (the one with Antix on it) do use Enlightenment, and IceWM works well on it too.

One important point. Most distros let you install multiple desktops and switch between them at - just choose at login.

its not hard to switch to another distro either, especially one in the same family which minimises the learning curve.

iamlost

11:33 pm on Aug 24, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I have always used Debian for my servers so using DebianDesktop [debian.org] is my no brainer choice. Rock solid aka stable is a good thing in an operating system. :)

Debian stable plus choice of desktop environment version (Gnome 3 is default but XFCE, KDE Plasma 5, Cinnamon, Mate, and more available).

mack

11:43 pm on Aug 24, 2020 (gmt 0)

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In fairness it really does come down to the desktop environment. Thats where the user will be spending most of their time.

Mack.

tangor

12:52 am on Aug 25, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Windows guy myself ... but when I set up my Linux I went "command line" and chose Ubuntu as the (at the time) most stable. No problem with command line as my computer daze started with CP/M and DOS (1981) so the concepts were very familiar. Four, perhaps five, years back I bolted on KDE just for fun and have not found a reason to change.

But my prized applications for which I get paid real dollars are YET to be replicated in Linux apps ... sigh. Close, but as they say, no Cigar!

Disclaimer: Have a Win 10 as well ... but primarily as a toy since all my WORK is still done on a fully updated (and now protected!) Win 7 machine, which is also fully cloned on TWO SSDs just in case that hardware should (Finally? Evenutally?) fail. Pop it in and off we go.

That said, I do like the little Linux box---and work the very heck out of it!

JorgeV

10:39 am on Aug 25, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Hello,

I use Ubuntu on desktops / laptop. There is no particular reasons. Once, I bought a netbook, with Ubuntu pre-installed. I found it convenient, it worked, so, I installed Ubuntu on my desktop, and laptop.

dstiles

10:59 am on Aug 25, 2020 (gmt 0)

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As I said before, I prefer Manjaro but also have some Mint (18 and 19) machines. The latter, with the possible exception of the online mail server, will eventually become Manjaro.

I use XFCE as the desktop, with compositor turned off to speed things up a bit. Depending on the machine and its use, I have from 3 to 8 workspaces set up - a recent thing for me which I wish I'd set up before. XFCE's file manager is Thunar, which I've come to prefer over others.

Thunderbird, of course, for mail and rss. I've been using it since it first arrived on the scene; Windows at the time.

Libre Office - mostly for my wife's writing but I sometimes use Calc.

Kate for programming web sites, Gedit and Geany as general purpose text editors. Cherrytree for keeping notes - invaluable!

I used to use only firefox for web browsing, since its very early days, but dumped it a few years ago as being top-heavy, intrusive and suddenly removing many add-ons that I relied on. Instead, I now use a mixture of browsers:

Pale Moon for most things. Occasionally it fails to run something on a web site, probably connected with ad and script blockers. I notice that a few add-ons I still use seem to have become unsupported so its days are probably numbered.

Waterfox for things that Pale Moon cannot handle that include pCloud, Protonmail and Manjaro forums.

Vivaldi seems to handle everything. It's a Chrome-based google-free browser that takes a lot of setting up. Sadly it does not auto-select a tab from middle-clicks; also does not support tab-mix, which I rely on. Otherwise, works well.

Other browsers in daily use include Basilisk, Brave, Sea Monkey and Falkon, but their use is restricted to known web sites as I do not completely trust them.

Remmina for managing the local and remote network machines, most of which are headless.

Filezilla for uploading to the web server.

And Clementine for music with VLC for videos. Well, I deserver SOME me-time! :)

graeme_p

1:41 pm on Aug 25, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@dstiles I find the similarities and differences between what we use quite interesting.

I switched back to KDE from XFCE. One reason is KDE's file manager (Dolphin) is extremely good at managing remote files. Other KDE apps like date are too - so I can click on a file on a server I have an sftp connection open to and edit it in Kate. So naturally I do not need Filezilla or similar.

I use Thunderbird, for mail, calendars and my to do list, but just moved my RSS feeds to Akkregator.

I use Zim for notes, but I would probably be happy with Cherrytree.

I use Eric for editing Python, Spyder for numerical Python code, Komodo Edit for HTML and JS, and Kate and Geany for as general purpose editors.

I use Firefox (with a lot of extensions - especially security and privacy ones), Chromium (open source Chrome) and Falkon. I have Konqueror and one or two others installed too. Why do you not trust Falkon?

I use Quod Libet for music, but that is because I listen to a lot of classical music and need composers handled reasonable (in the people section AND search AND shown in a separate column when browsing albums or tracks).

Libre Office, of course.

I use command line ssh for Remote servers. Actually, maybe I should have a look at Remmina.

graeme_p

1:52 pm on Aug 25, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@mack, one mistake in the original post: the default office suite on OpenSuse. I am also fairly sure the default email client will be Thunderbird unless you choose the KDE option in the installer (the installer gives you a few options for what you want initially installed - [doc.opensuse.org...] ).

dstiles

4:28 pm on Aug 25, 2020 (gmt 0)

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> Why do you not trust Falkon?

Perhaps "trust" is not the right word. I'm wary of any browser I cannot set up to my own satisfaction. It probably comes (for me) from not using a tool extensibly so therefore not putting the time into setting it up properly. Also, a year or so ago it crashed on me a few times, though that could be for a number of reasons. The wariness really applies to all my second-choice browsers.

I find thunar good at viewing local and remote network places. Local by selecting from its own Network Places browser, online by sftp in the files bar.

graeme_p

4:55 pm on Aug 26, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@dstiles, Thunar is good, but Dolphin is better - slick and works really well in combination with Kate as an editor for remote files. I may feel the difference more than many because I have about 20 remote logins.

I switched back to KDE because I could not find how to get Dolphin to use single click to activate on other desktops. It may seem minor but double clicking increases your chance of RSI and makes the machine slightly less responsive (because it has to wait a fraction of a second to see whether you will double click). Its all Steve Jobs's fault

mack

7:01 pm on Aug 26, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I agree about Dolphin, it really is a great file browser and I like how easy it is to configure it to work with remote file systems. It's way easier to just drag and drop a file from the network server rather then FTP in and transfer it that way.

Another utility I use a lot is KDE connect. Allows you to send files to any machine (also running KDE connect) on your network. there is also an Android app that makes it very easy to send files from your phone to any system on the LAN.

@mack, one mistake in the original post: the default office suite on OpenSuse......

I think you are right. I have not used a recent version and was thinking back to the last time I experimented with it.

Here are another few apps I think are worthy of mention...

Bluefish: A great light HTML/CSS php development IDE with good syntax highlighting.
Kdenlive: A free and open-source non-linear video editor.
DarkTable: A raw photo editor.

Mack.

dstiles

10:04 am on Aug 27, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@graeme_p - I have no problem handling remote files with thunar, editing, dropping etc. I only use ftp now for the windows server, which I've never set up for ssh. I agree about double-clicking - saves me a lot of time - but my wife hates it.

You mentioned Akkregator. I tried it for a while during a thunderbird tantrum but prefer tbird, not least because it's there when I run through my mailboxes (of which there are many).

@mack - KDE connect sounds like warpinator (what a stupid name!) now being touted as the answer to network management on Mint 20. It isn't, of course. All it can do is transfer files, which it seems to be good at, but it needs to grow up a lot before it can play in the bigger boys playground.

I sometimes use bluefish on the windows server but when I did a lot of site construction kate was better. Not sure now, as I only use it rarely. The others: I have no need of a video editor and I'm happy (perhaps make that entrenched) with gimp; again, not used a lot nowadays.

graeme_p

11:03 am on Aug 27, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@mack, do not know about video editing, but the others are all good. KDE Connect which has a number of nice features - apart from sending files its lets you use an android device as an input device for a PC, ring the Android device if you cannot find it, and all sorts of things.

Kirta for image editing, and digiKam for photo management too.

Going back to distros, of the ones you have listed, on reasonably recent hardware, I would suggest for Kubuntu for new users, but OpenSuSE is a good option for more experienced users or if you particularly want everything in a GUI control panel - hosts file, firewall, NTP, Kerberos, VPN, services, partitioning, security hardening.... good for people who want control but do not want to use the command line.

graeme_p

7:34 pm on Aug 27, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@dstiles, I think we do have some similar preferences and some very different ones!

I will give Bluefish another try. Its never going to be my main HTML editor because it lacks Django template markup (unless I implement it myself) and I find komodo edit highlights a lot of Django template, HTML and CSS mistakes - but Bluefish might be a nice tool to have in the box.

explorador

2:24 pm on Aug 31, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Tried several, liked some for very specific reasons (Lubuntu at the top in my case), but then found more practical, pleasant and just easy to flow with: Xubuntu, always one of my favorites. Full install, dual boot and even on a custom USB memory (3.0) to avoid touching partitions, it runs really fast (unnoticeable differences), yes an external hard disk would be better but I don't complain (it's better for random access).

Regarding office applications my votes go for SoftMaker FreeOffice, it is really fast, easy to use and full of features. I even have the Windows version (runs on Win, Linux and Mac). For coding used Sublime, Gedit and Brackets, but Sublime was my favorite, also used it on Windows when I got back. The rest of tasks was handled on specific Linux apps and some Windows apps running on Wine (there was no other option). I never tried ElementaryOS but gets my attention. Mint... tried to like it, but I don't, that doesn't mean it's not great, it's just some customization didn't come easy. Also specifically liked a very reduced size PepperMint Linux version.

But... specifically
What Distro would you recommend?

IMO the recommendation depends on the final user, experience and final activities on the platform, such recommendation is as valid and useful as the information we can get from the person asking for it, and will be a mix of Distro + apps. For novices and average users I'm still voting for Xubuntu or Ubuntu. For really new users: Mint, because everything they could need comes preinstalled, other distros would require some tweaking on stuff that it's not fully open source like codecs. Now regarding more advanced users... the conversation could get complicated, probably mostly about sharing and listening. I believe... many times in the Linux community, many questions are confused from what to do and what to pick, with what-do-YOU-use, and in my opinion it's just a manifestation of the fidelity and enthusiasm.

graeme_p

12:26 pm on Sep 1, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Looking at the comments on the three currently active Linux threads:

1. Well known Debian based distros (Ubuntu, Debian Mint) are the most recommended, especially for new users. It probably does not matter that much which one you choose: the user visible differences are default desktops, default settings and themes, and maybe some admin tools, and minor differences in software in the repositories.

2. XFCE or KDE desktop environment. Not a lot of enthusiasm for Gnome which is very widely used.

@dstiles would you recommend Manjaro to newbies as well as experienced users?

I suspect Gnome is largely used because it is a default for the biggest distros and many users see no reason to change it. A commercial decision to push it rather than a user choice.

Personally I would go with XFCE for older machines, or where you just want something light to start applications. KDE does more and it has a lot of good utilities/system/accessories type apps ( [kde.org...] ) - the standalone apps are different, but utilities work better integrated into the desktop.

dstiles

9:10 am on Sep 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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> would you recommend Manjaro to newbies as well as experienced users

I think so. Possibly with Mate rather than XFCE to begin with. Although my brother had problems installing it to his liking (with XFCE) and does not think much of it.

I think XFCE needs a bit of patience if you want certain applications, as I do, which are not standard. Not difficult but I think Mate may be a bit easier. Or possibly KDE, which is the promoted DE for it; I have no experience of that as a DE, whilst I am familiar with Mate and XFCE.

The main thing I like about Manjaro (and the reason I tried it in the first place) is its rolling release. Not sure a beginner would easily upgrade from, say, Mint 19 to Mint 20; there is a danger (I think) of losing data, especially if you do not have a seperate data partition. I also consider Mint 20 to be ... "unfinished" is a polite way of putting it. My brother has it installed as dual-boot with Mint 19.3 and is struggling with it, and although not a techie he has a fair working knowledge backed by my occasional suggestion.

graeme_p

10:54 am on Sep 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I have used both XFCE and KDE and would definitely prefer KDE for newbies, but XFCE is fine too.

Most distros are easier to upgrade than Mint. Mint requires running a special upgrade utility. A lot of distros (Ubuntu for example) just require clicking OK in the GUI (if there is a new version available it offers to upgrade you after a routine update runs).

On that basis, I am inclined to point new users to Kubuntu (not a distro I would use myself) unless they have special requirements (older hardware, want to match a non-Debian based server OS, want to learn rather than use Linux, etc.).

For myself I may well try Manjaro when I feel the need to upgrade. I need to do a bit of research to compare it to Tumbleweed, the rolling release version of Open SuSE - my feeling at the moment is Manjaro will probably be more stable as Tumbleweed feels a bit more experimental (meant to try things out for the stable version) whereas Manjaro is designed to be the stable version.

dstiles

1:18 pm on Sep 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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You could always get a second-hand box and install Manjaro on it. :)

graeme_p

4:27 pm on Sep 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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My next box is probably going to be a Raspberry Pi 4...

....and I find Manjaro has a release for it.

In fact they have a 64 bit OS for Pi out before the Raspberry PI project itself has a stable release (they have a beta at the moment).

I might also try it on my old laptop that is not doing very much.

TorontoBoy

4:38 pm on Sep 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I dabble with very low powered old desktops, ones that others discard. We call them "boat anchors". Many come with Win XP installed, 10-15 years old, which after many years of use has accumulated such garbage and viruses as to be unusable and very often near unbootable. Boot, have lunch, check back in 30 mins, have some more lunch. Usually no more than 500mb ram, sometimes 256m. I've seen some with Netscape Navigator!

Yet linux can and does run, a bit slow, but you can still surf the web, search google. read the news, word processing and other geezer activities. Ubuntu, even xfce, is too large and will be extremely slow. The options are Puppy linux and the old 32 bit Arch. Both run surprisingly well to get these old biddies going again. These PCs are more useful to someone with no money that just trashing them. Linux makes this a reality. Sort of like a rebirth.

graeme_p

6:13 pm on Sep 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I have also used old laptops as home servers (media servers, home intranet, etc.), and I currently use one for playing Battle for Wesnoth. In theory I am going to use it for writing too.

I have Antix on the oldest machine I have, which is 12 years old and was not particularly high spec at the time. Works OK and looks pretty with Enlightenment. It will be interesting to see if I can manage to get it working with Manjaro.

I have not tried Puppy for a while. Very light and fast and I liked it a lot when i did try it.

I find the biggest limitation with old machines is that websites are so heavy these days: browsers will use a lot of memory.

explorador

9:19 pm on Sep 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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graeme: I find the biggest limitation with old machines is that websites are so heavy these days: browsers will use a lot of memory.
websites and browsers, but perhaps mostly the browsers; even if the website is not heavy, browsers pack lots of features and support even if given website doesn't need it or won't use it, but are things needed on special cases for sessions, security, SSL, etc that come pre enabled on browsers.

On such cases I used Dolphin, Maxthon, UC Browser and Opera / Opera Mini (the java version). The last ones had proxy-data-saving-features managing the heavy load and processing on a separate server delivering only a light page on your side. Last thing I knew is Opera discontinued that feature (except on Android). BTW those features on Opera is something I found very useful on all the operative systems I could install and enable it.

dstiles

9:48 pm on Sep 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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> browsers will use a lot of memory.

I wonder if Falkon would be suitable - see the Falkon thread hereabouts.

Or Midori seems to be very light.

graeme_p

10:21 am on Sep 3, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@dstiles, I do not think Falkon will help. It uses the same rendering engine as Chromium so it will use the same memory per site.

Midori might as it is a single process browser so will not run a process per site. That will not help in Linux as much as it would with Windows (shared libraries only loaded once, fork is copy on write) but will still help - its popularity in lightweight distros suggests it probably is light. I might give it a try too, thanks. I had forgotten it existed.

dstiles

8:58 am on Sep 4, 2020 (gmt 0)

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> same rendering engine as Chromium

From my own observation Falkon uses far fewer resources than (eg) Vivaldi.
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