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What Distro would you recommend?

A look at various Linux distributions.

         

mack

3:48 pm on Aug 24, 2020 (gmt 0)

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In a recent thread we discussed the Linux operating system and what makes it viable (or not) for different users.

[webmasterworld.com...]

The consensus was that whilst some people could be using Linux as their full time operating system, for many it was simply not practical. There are many limitations such as a potential learning curve and compatibility of various pieces of software.

Another point that came up during the previous discussion was the various different versions, or “distributions” of Linux. For many people, this causes a lot of confusion. Not only is it a change moving to Linux but you also need to decide what distribution to go with.

In this thread, I thought it would be a good idea to try and discuss the most popular distributions (distros) and try and cover some pros and cons for each. I will list my top 4… please feel free to add your own opinions and choices.

1) Kubuntu: [kubuntu.org...]
Kubuntu is based on Ubuntu. Under the hood, they are practically the same operating system with different user interfaces. Ubuntu is a long-standing very established and stable distribution. Kubuntu makes good use of this stable and reliable OS and ads it’s own twist.

The name Kubuntu is derived from “K desktop environment Ubuntu”. This means it is Ubuntu but with the KDE desktop. [kde.org...]

The KDE desktop is now a very stable desktop that would be very familiar to anyone who is coming from a windows machine and perhaps trying Linux for the first time. It has a menu button at the bottom left of the taskbar a lot like the Windows Start menu.

It comes with Libre Office (A fork of Open Office), Thunderbird Email (from Mozilla) and the Firefox web browser. From the start, you are able to get running and carry out day to day tasks.

When it comes to installing additional software Kunubtu has an “app store” where you can search for software (all applications in the app store are free) In Kubuntu the app store is called “Discover”.

If the piece of software you want to use is not on Discover you have other options. All *buntu distros support installing packages from .deb files. You can also build packages from source. This is however an advanced process and not something we will cover in this thread.

2) Ubuntu: [ubuntu.com...]
Ubuntu is probably the most popular variant of the Linux operating system on the desktop. Ubuntu has been in development since 2004. The default desktop environment on Ubuntu is Gnome [gnome.org...]

Gnome was a longstanding addition to Ubuntu, but for a while they switched to a desktop that was based on Gnome, but operated very differently called Unity [en.wikipedia.org...] . I am personally glad they reverted back to Gnome 3 for the current release.

Ubuntu, by default, runs the Libra Office Suite, Firefox web browser and Thunderbird email client. It has an app store called “Software Centre” where you can search for and download from 10s of thousands of apps. Like Kubuntu, you can also install from .deb files or build from source.

3) Linux Mint: [linuxmint.com...]
Linux mint is another Ubuntu-based Linux Distribution. Even although Linux Mint has Ubuntu at its core it is probably aesthetically the least Ubuntu like OS (that is Ubuntu based).

Linux Mint has 2 different Desktop environments. You can choose to install one or both, although you need to chose what version you want to install as default when you download Linux Mint. The desktop environments are Mate [mate-desktop.org...] and Cinnamon [en.wikipedia.org...]

It also has a third desktop called Xfce [xfce.org...] that is designed to be very lightweight and requires fewer resources than some other desktops.

Linux Mint has gained a lot of popularity over the past couple of years and perhaps simply by offering more choices in terms of desktop environments is part of the reason. It’s strange how some Ubuntu-based distros have one name per desktop environment release yet Linux Mint is simply Linux Mins with multiple environments.

Linux Mint also ships with Firefox, Thunderbird and Libre office.

It also has an “app store” called Mint Software Manager where you can search for and install any other required software.

4) Open Suse: [opensuse.org...]
Open Suse is not Ubuntu based, It is RPM based (a bit like RedHat) I first used a Suse system back in 2003 and it was a real headache. Thankfully things have moved on and it is not a LOT more stable.

It contains the WPS Office suite, Firefox web browser and Kmail email client.

Open Suse (and all Suse variants) have a brilliant software manager called Yast it allows you to search for software and effectively manage you’re installed software.

---

No matter what distro you decide to use, you are running the Linux OS. The distro you use will come down to personal choice and preference. It would be good to see what others can add to this.

Mack.

mcneely

8:55 pm on Sep 6, 2020 (gmt 0)

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My 2 cents ...

Linux Mint (Cinnamon) user here ( I don't really care for MATE or Xfce) .. Mint 20 works well out of the box, and all of any Windows based progs (which are fewer than before) work well with WINE.
I would recommend Mint 20 to any Windows user looking to switch ... Mint has the most "Windows" like UI out of all of the rest IMO

I use Firefox (used Firefox for literally "years") - Mint 20 eliminated open source chromium however (my secondary browser) - I test in Opera now though ... Anything with the Blink rendering engine will view the same, with the only difference being how much spyware is written into the back end.

tangor

5:29 am on Sep 7, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Just installed this for a work-a-day Joe ... Seems quite solid, though I didn't spend that much time playing with it. Still a Win guy with an Ubuntu box for dev purposes, but also addressing ordinary folks with borked Win 7 who just want to get back on line, view their pics and videos, and not worry about the "stuff under the hood".

webimu

7:58 am on Sep 7, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I have used Ubuntu, Mint and some of the few; but I would certainly prefer ubuntu for my distro. Kbuntu is light weight must be good though I haven't used it because it also uses Ubuntu kernel.

seomotionz

4:47 am on Sep 8, 2020 (gmt 0)

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For computer maybe Ubuntu.. But for servers CentOS, plain and simple.

Most of my sites run on LAMP and it just works great on CentOS.

graeme_p

9:12 am on Sep 9, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@seomothionz, I do almost the opposite. Debian on servers (occasionally Ubuntu), OpenSuse on my desktop.

No real difference between Debian and Ubuntu on servers (no more than between different versions of either).

Suse is entirely separate from anything else, but is more closely related to Red hat/Centos (RPM packages, etc.)

@tangor, the borkage fixing thing is why I used to have my dad using Linux.

Its interesting that no one looking for a Windows like desktop uses any of the distros that are designed to be Windows like (or Mac like for that matter) out of the box. I wonder whether it really matters though - I have not often heard that MacOS is held back by not looking like Windows.

finco

6:08 pm on Sep 9, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@graeme_p

I use Ubuntu here. But you cannot really compare Mac OS Desktop with Ubuntu. One thing that makes people complain less about Mac OS is the driver support.

Most Windows fan boys see features like a working mouse, kinetic scroll, low power consumption and many more as default for laptops. And yes, they truly are default.

But after switching to Linux, you'll notice some of these things do not work like they do before by default (Depending on your hardware). This is not so for Mac OS. Mac OS comes with the perfect drivers for the hardware so you will not see too much complaints

graeme_p

9:16 am on Sep 10, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@finco

That is why i suggest people buy hardware with Linux preinstalled if they intend to use Linux on it - unless they are prepared to spend a bit of time checking their hardware works with Linux. In either of those cases they will avoid driver issues.

The problems arise when people install Linux on existing machines that originally ran Windows - which is not even an option with MacOS unless you go the "hackintosh" route in which case you will have even worse problems.

All that is irrelevant to my point, which is that there seems to be no advantage in Linux desktops defaulting to looking like Windows. In fact, I think it may even be bad for Linux usage as it makes Linux look like a cheap substitute for Windows rather than its own thing.

lammert

12:47 pm on Sep 10, 2020 (gmt 0)

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The distros I am missing in this discussion is CentOS and other flavors from the Red Hat family. I use CentOS exclusively on all my servers (both Intel/AMD and ARM based) and to maintain compatibility in tools, I have also CentOS installed on a few desktops. The main advantage I have found is that some hardware manufacturers only provide certified drivers for their hardware for Red Hat. Red Hat drivers in binary form can be installed without modification on CentOS systems.

dstiles

9:36 am on Sep 11, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Of the dozen-ish desktops and laptops I've installed linux on (Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Mint, Manjaro) none of them failed. This includes a rather old Compaq ex-Windows (probably XP - can't recall) and an ex-Windows7 Dell laptop. Desktop machines I've had built have AMD CPUs and NOT Nvidia, which is the most complained-about video system I've seen.

tangor

7:28 am on Sep 16, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Nvidia has been quirky (too bleeding edge) for Windows and Linux!

Personally avoid it myself. :)

YMMV

graeme_p

1:27 pm on Sep 16, 2020 (gmt 0)

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The only serious problem I have had with Linux in years has been Nvidia drivers.

I found the solution was to switch from Nvidia's proprietary drivers to the open source Nouveau drivers. Performance is a bit worse but I prefer to trade that off for reliability.

bill

3:02 am on Oct 12, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Qubes OS
I started out my switch to Linux about 5 years ago with Qubes...I had played with various distros in VMs, but Qubes doesn't work well in a VM...you have to install it on the hardware. That forced me to really learn to use the OS. Its my primary OS now at home and in the office.

Everything in Qubes is a VM of some sort. Primarily Fedora, but I also have Debian, CentOS, Arch, and Windows VMs. I prefer Fedora. I have the Windows VMs for stuff that only runs in Windows, like Office, but I find myself using it less and less. If there's an open source app that can handle a task I use that for the job.

Although Qubes is a bit of a hassle to work with sometimes because of the security, it's a nice sense of assurance knowing that can open questionable files in a disposable VM and that when I close it that VM will be gone forever and not impact my machine.

graeme_p

12:03 pm on Nov 3, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@bill what is Qubes resource usage like in real life usage? Obviously there is going to be overhead but does user data vs code memory usage dominate enough that it does not matter much?

bill

12:34 am on Nov 25, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I have some pretty beefy machines with more than 128 GB RAM, which helps a lot. You don't necessarily need that much, but the more RAM the better. You'll also want a lot of cores to work with on your CPU as that can be allocated out to the VMs (although you can also share them). It's like you're running a bunch of individual PCs that are sharing those resources.

You can run Qubes OS on a laptop with less resources. You just don't want to be running several resource intensive VMs at the same time. You can make super minimal VMs for certain tasks that don't need much in terms of resources. For example, running several Win10 VMs tends to eat up resources fast.

Andrew3000

8:50 pm on Dec 1, 2020 (gmt 0)

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I worry about how much productivity and innovation is gained from using a non-GUI (command line)... I just use Linux Mint as a web server.

I remember switching from MS-DOS to Windows 2 on an i286 last century. No more having to type long directory names, file names, and remembering all the short acronyms. I don't mind writing code in code view (I no longer use Dreamweaver) but a GUI and windows makes life easier and enjoyable at times.

tangor

1:15 am on Dec 2, 2020 (gmt 0)

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@Andrew3000 ... Welcome to Webmasterworld!

Much the same path, just starting a bit earlier (before XTs). Getting more into Linux these days and much of the GUI differences between are becoming less apparent. All things change over time.

singletonamos50

2:32 pm on Dec 16, 2020 (gmt 0)

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Open Suse is not Ubuntu based, It is RPM based (a bit like RedHat) I first used a Suse system back in 2003 and it was a real headache. Thankfully things have moved on and it is not a LOT more stable opensuse.org

graeme_p

12:54 pm on Jan 10, 2021 (gmt 0)

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@Andrew3000

The *nix command line is incomparably better than MS-DOS was. Autocomplete, help (man pages and built in help) and other refinements make a huge difference, as do the available text mode applications. I assume the Windows command line is also pretty good these days with Powershell.

It does take longer to learn, but once you learn it, it is more productive.

Another advantage is that you can copy and paste commands, or sequences or commands. Much easier than following (or giving!) instructions on how to do something with a GUI

Not having a GUI running on a server still lets you use a lot of GUI tools. For example, for managing and editing config files on a server I use a GUI file manager and text editor running on my desktop that can connect to remote file systems (usually over SFTP).

lammert

1:12 pm on Jan 10, 2021 (gmt 0)

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As an intermediate step, you can install Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) on a Windows 10 box, giving a full Linux system including kernel to play around with and learn the command-line basics, before jumping to a Linux-only system. WSL can run a number of distributions inside your Windows environment.

graeme_p

5:46 pm on Jan 10, 2021 (gmt 0)

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I suggest having a GUI on what you use locally: whether WSL, A VM or installed directly. You can make the transition more easily that way.

Actually using it as your day to day OS is best for building familiarity - although it still takes a bit of effort to move from GUI to command line.

dstiles

11:13 am on Jan 11, 2021 (gmt 0)

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graeme_p: I've recently considered (following your recent remarks) editing online files from a local editor. The idea is sound but I infer a necessity to share the /srv and /etc/(apache) folders in FileSystem (root), which even with tunnelled sftp I'm wary of. I would also need to access several mail files in postfix, spamassassin other /etc and /var folders and possibly /usr as well.

On top of that I need to view logs for both web and mail; I currently use glogg.

Succeeding at this would mean a saving of about half the hosting costs. Definitely desirable but I'm not convinced of its workability. I'm aware of vi, vim, nano and others but haven't used them for over 30 years. Probably not a problem but another set of things to learn. :(

graeme_p

12:04 pm on Jan 12, 2021 (gmt 0)

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@dstiles editing files should not be a problem. Making glogg work is more difficult so maybe look at replacements?

The easiest solution for editing config files is to permit root ssh login and editors like Kate will just work with a url like sftp://root@example.com

I am wary of allowing password root logins but if you use ssh keys to login you can set

PermitRootLogin without-password

in sshd_config and that is probably as secure (or possibly more so) than what you do now (either X over ssh or a remote desktop, I imagine?).

I usually use nano to edit small config files. While vi and others take time to learn, nano is very simple. That does make it less suitable for large and complex files.

Depending on the size of the logfiles involved, and how complex your usage is, I suggest:

1. just use grep (my usual solution). If you know regular expressions (which you probably do to use glogg) its relatively easy
2. copy or rsync your log files to your local machine and then use glogg
3. use a "cloud" logging service. not my favourite approach, but if its going to save hosting costs its worth it. I have used papertrail (admittedly Solar Winds is not a provider who inspires confidence at the moment) but there are lots of others.
4. run your own logging server using something with a web ui: I have used Graylog like this, but ELK stack is more popular. Both are a bit of a pain to set up, but are a lot more powerful than graylog

dstiles

2:15 pm on Jan 12, 2021 (gmt 0)

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Thanks for the response, graeme_p.

I use password-less SSH access, which gives me a full set of online folders (/etc, /usr, /home etc) but at present only the /home can be used to read/write/transfer files. I'll look into extending that to access "root" files/folders.

I don't think your initial log solutions would be suitable. Yes, I know regex and use rsync/curl to download files but I monitor logs at arbitrary times thoughout the day and sometimes need to look into them to solve customer problems.

Never been keen on cloud solutions; too many bad reports - yes, I know, there are some good ones. :) A web log ui may solve the problem but a bit slow and difficult to scroll back and forth.

I've just run a local glogg via ssh to a /home copy of /var/log/mail.log - a static copy, but it seems to work ok. A basis for investigation.

I'll put some time and effort into possible solutions based on your ideas, though, thanks. I'll run them up on a local VPS when my current crisis abates and I can actually launch one.
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