Good luck with it, but I wouldn't expect anything beyond a canned e-mail response.

There is no such thing as a "normal" year with AdSense.

It sounds too complex, but I'd support you.
Common, even criminals have a second chance, once you pass a time in prison.
With Google is death penalty forever!

Google never respond to my e-mails.

But I see two different advantages:

a) FOR THE OWNER >>>I think the reduced revenue is a price to pay by the owner who made invalid clicks and still think that Adsense is the great site monetiser from the whole world.

b) FOR... ADSENSE >>>They can win a lot of money (with reduced revenue) and block the intrusion of other competitors in the area.

Thank you guys for your support. I will be more happy if you can complete or modify my proposition.

I hope somebody can see it and I think it's not so difficult with the soft.

I like the idea of second chance, but think Google would not allow that because click fraud would grow if everybody knew there would be a second chance :( Also by not giving a second chance Google is protecting itself from recurring problems. Big percent of "second chancers" would click again (similar to those who commited a crime with a big probability would do that again).

[edited by: joelgreen at 7:26 pm (utc) on Jan. 16, 2007]

I think everyone deserve a second chance.

Try to look at the situation objectively:

Would you offer a second chance to someone who'd swindled you and your clients?

Most of us wouldn't. Why should anyone expect Google to be less cautious or more forgiving?

I think the fraud will never grow because:

a) it past two years till an owner can be involved again at the maximum potential and I think it's a lot of time;

b) at the second "mistake" the site will be eliminated forever without any kind of hope.

In this time Adsense can make good money, no?

For Europeforvisitors:

Adsense delete my account at THE END of a month. In that month advertisers are posted for free at my site, I don't see a cent for my space.

But I did the mistake to click on my own adds, so, I deserve the penalty.

Please don't divert the discution.

In this time Adsense can make good money, no?

Again, how can it be good money if its determined to be raised through invalid clicks, then have to get credited back? Why run the risk of being put into a position of having to credit back advertisers due to invalid clicks. When robots visit my blocked pages, i ban 'em.. they don't follow the rules, then buh bye...

Adsense delete my account at THE END of a month. In that month advertisers are posted for free at my site, I don't see a cent for my space.

The vast majority of AdSense ads are purchased by the click, not by impressions, so you wouldn't be paid for your space in any case. Google keeps the money for two reasons: (1) To refund the cost of invalid clicks to advertisers, and (2) To make it less likely that publishers will be able to profit from invalid clicks before they're banned.

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I write about "what can be" not about "what it was..."!

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deca,

the discussion of whether a second chance is deserved involves what type of sites the second chance would be offered to. Though you may only want to talk about your solution what the others have offered are valid points.

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Well, I ride the fence on this issue, but lean more towards the "no second chances" idea.

Most folks who have been with Adsense for a few years may have inadvertently clicked one or two ads during that time. Google recognizes this and won't punish you for it.

But if they have determined that you are guilty of invalid clicks and you cannot prove that those clicks were not caused by you, then they have good reason to ban you.

I understand the dilemma where people need second chances, but it is sort of like a store owner who terminates an employee for stealing...

... Even though you may learn from it and probably deserve a second chance at having a job, it doesn't have to be a job with the employer you stole from.

But I did the mistake to click on my own adds, so, I deserve the penalty.

It wasn't a mistake it's stealing. You are a thief asking for a chance to steal again. You've shown you will steal from others if you think you can get away with it and now you're asking honest people to help you steal again and hurt the system for all the non thieves. You should be banned forever.

Google doesn't believe in 'restorative justice'.

Apparently no one at google is from Vermont.

I have a proposition for Adsense Team, but I don't know if can be real

Take the proposition to the Adsense Team, they are the ones to advised you on this. We cannot. We do not have the ability nor the power to determine if your suggested course of action is the best course to take. Only the Adsense Team has the authority to say if it is. All you will get here is a reminder about the TOS for adsense, some opinions, and the occasional success story about getting back in, after following through on the I've been reinstated threads, but outside of that, not much more.

While google does seem to believe in second chances in some cases, I doubt they would ever go along with what you suggest.

Part of the problem is that you think the way that you do. You clicked the ads to make more money. You think this will appeal to google because they will get to pocket a larger percent of the money. That thinking is broken.

Now, try and figure out what it wrong with your proposal, grom Google's perspective and from the advertisers perspective, and even from the publisher's perspective.

Advertisers - they would still be paying for ads on a site with a history of active click fraud (not just "invalid clicks"). They would see Google pocketing a larger percentage while the risk is passed on to the advertisers. Even if the savings were passes to the advertisers, they would want it to be opt-in to those sites.

Publishers - "Hey, Google bans people just so they can pocket a larger percentage when they give them a second chance"

Google - What advantage do they get that would be worth the money and possible damage to their reputation?

Solve those problems and you might have a chance of having them listen. Stop looking at it from only your own perspective when looking for a solution.

This idea is one of the reasons I, as an advertiser, don’t have the content network turned on. Too many people see AdSense as one of those role-playing video games. If you play well and kill monsters and find your way through the maze, you score a lot of points (make a lot of money). If you don’t play well, you don’t score many points or make money. To play well, you might have to push the envelope and cut corners and take chances (a self click here and there) and use your skill (e.g. proxy IPs) to avoid being killed by the monsters (kicked out of AdSense.) But if you do lose, if your character is killed, you can always play again. That’s how role-playing games work, so why not AdSense? You’re playing against AdSense, right? In the spirit of sportsmanship, they should give you another chance.

The immature people who think this way don’t consider the advertisers who get cheated by invalid clicks. They just think it’s a game they are playing with Google.

Very funny beren :) Probably pretty accurate too. This could explain why whenever something goes down certain people always blame their opponent Google.

Also props to BigDave, some good points.

Adsense bans people for many reasons. Some of these reasons I do not fully understand and the banning process has some serious flaws causing innocent folks losing their Adsense account.

However! For people who systematically click their own ads, or people who let other people or software click their ads, there is only one proper punishment and that is a permanent ban from the program.

People who behave as described above do extremely serious damage to the Adsense and Adwords programs. As both an Adsense publisher and Adwords advertiser I feel I don't want that kind of people to be part of the game in order to prevent my money from being stolen.
Click fraud has been costing me thousands of dollars. At some point I almost went broke because of some folks clicking my high paying Adwords ads all day. Fortunately, Google took care of it, preventing my business from being destroyed.

Second chance? Every new day is a second chance to stop cheating.
Why do cheaters alway decide they need a second chance after they get cought, and never before?

I think an Adsense ban is a mild repercussion for trying to steal.
It means one is free to go elsewhere (YPN, CJ, Shareasale, Clickbank, whatever) and continue to do online business.

The ones who have the real life sentence are the legit business folks whose lives have been destroyed by clickfraud.

I think an Adsense ban is a mild repercussion for trying to steal.

I agree. An AdSense ban is just a withdrawal of a privelege (no more cookies for you). Theft invites more than that: a punishment (a clip around the ear). If you commit click-fraud and just get a permanent ban then you're lucky.

Sorry, for a moment there I forgot that society doesn't believe in retributive justice anymore.

Daft thread. No second chances - as has already been said, the people that think that way are much more likely to repeat. "Maybe I'll just be more careful this time - only click twice a day", or similar... We spend thousands every month on Adwords, and the thought that some little **#!@ is sitting there clicking the ads, using up our marketing budget, is a nasty one. Similarly, we have the content network turned off for just this reason.

I depended on the content network, so turning it off was no option.
And what's more, the money these self-clickers stole from me was my own money. I am a one man show, not part of some larger business.
Indeed, it hurts to see your hard work go down the drain because of click fraud...

So, you, as adviser does not want to see anymore "the adsense disabled accounts" live again?

Strange, because I'm not sure that people who are BANNED for one time do the same things again. And, if it is so, they done minor damage (remember, I suggested ONE year of the system and another one year with revenue seriously reduced).

And even so, what guarantee can you have with the NEW ACCOUNTS? Day after day Adsense allowed new accounts. Theoretical, if Adsense grows than the rate of the "future bad accounts" will be the same. So, you will lose again money because invalid clicks.

My proposal come after your request. An account suspended for one year and with revenue low in the next year will HELP advertisers.
Why?
- at the first "new" mistake Adsense will ban the account forever;
- the damage will be lower (because small revenue);
- the second chance will make publishers more fair; I'm sure Adsense will gain now a big number of fair-player publishers;
- the people who are disabled will have time to think (one year) about there actions (stealing is not an option in Adsense!); their bad comments against Adsense "treatment" will stoped till they have another chance;

I don't think logic can be applied to Greed. Greed is based on fear, primarily the fear of not having enough, and when click fraud ensues... the only sure way to protect against Greed is to ban. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Since you seem to think a permanent ban is reasonable after being caught red handed twice why not after the first time?

Since it 's well known that if you are a crook you will get banned why would we think that if you get caught a second time you won't just cry for a 3rd chance? You still seem to paint yourself as a victim for your crimes, it's clear you are just trying to make a situation where you can steal again but maybe not be such a failure at it.

So, you, as adviser does not want to see anymore "the adsense disabled accounts" live again?

Deca, I don't know if you are talking to me, but that's not what I said. I think there are many reasons to reinstate banned Adsense accounts, but not in case of people who have systematically clicked their own ads. That kind of behavior is so obviously fraudulent, and does so much damage that no risk should be taken with those who practice it. Anyone who frauds clicks in that way knows he or she is stealing. And again, being banned from Adsense is only a mild punishment for theft because you are free to go elsewhere if you want.

I'm not sure that people who are BANNED for one time do the same things again.

I prefer to put my trust in people who never committed fraud.

And, if it is so, they done minor damage

Ever had the pleasure of $10.000 being stolen from you in one month by click fraud? Don't give me this "minor damage" cr*p.
My business was almost destoyed because of people clicking their own ads. And now you tell me you want these people back in the program again?

the second chance will make publishers more fair

So what?
Adsense and Adwords are not invented to reeducate and rehabilitate thiefs. Talk to a parol officer for that. Adsense and Adwords are here for people who intend to run an honest business.

And even so, what guarantee can you have with the NEW ACCOUNTS? Day after day Adsense allowed new accounts. Theoretical, if Adsense grows than the rate of the "future bad accounts" will be the same. So, you will lose again money because invalid clicks.

Now this is becoming silly. Know what? We create two Adsense systems: one for people who have been banned for clicking their own ads, and one for people who never did. Where do you think will the most fraud appear? Where would you advise advertisers to put their money?

I appreciate your ideas on creating a system to reinstate banned Adsense accounts, but you can't expect advertisers to be in favor of reinstating former frauds. By the way if Google would actually give frauds a second chance, I would relocate all of my money elsewhere.

Dear humblebeginnings,

I think you can loose more than 10.000 usd next time, so I want to help you.

Where are you finding that honest people? In Adsense in 2010, let's say? Maybe, but I doubt!

I try to make the so called "stealers" visible. I lose money too (because invalid clicks), but not in Adwords, so I know what's happening.

You tell me to move in another publishing system? You lose in Adwords 10.000 usd because invalid clicks? I have the same question for you: why are you continue here? We both know the answer: Adwords/Adsense is and probably will be for a long time the best place for advertiser/publisher in the same time.

Deca,

Can you explain how your proposal is fair to me?

I'm a publisher that does not show ads to myself, much less click on them.

I'm already being punished by your actions, as evidenced by the advertisers that don't trust the content network enough to use it. Every one of your fraudulent clicks reduced some advertiser's budget, so maybe a higher paying ad didn't show on my site.

You aren't only taking from the advertiser and Google, you are taking from the honest publishers.

What you suggest is still a punishment to you, but it doesn't solve any problems for others. Instead of telling us how allowing you back in would make things better for you, tell us how it would make things better for google, the advertisers and the other publishers.

I'm with humblebeginnings, there is a reason for Google to allow for second chances on a lot of banned publishers, even for *invalid* clicks, but not for *fraudulent* clicks.