google track all the links coming to your website. Either this is a 1 way, or 2 way or 3 way linking.

A website is very new to get any quality link from other website unless it is not having any PR, and if it is not having PR, who will link, either you from your other website, or somebody else who will get the link against this. And here you says, the same owner, same IP it is now much easier to track the whole network.

Natural linking is something that link coming on regular basis 1 a day not 5-15 links a day.

What do you think whether this linking structure is good or bad?!
structure is little good as far as the indexing is concern, but i do not think this whole network will work for long. better you stop this 3 way or linking, go for reciprocal with theme based sites, with different c class IP, and little slow speed of links. get high quality link, bcoz each quality links counts high in compare of the same IP, owner type of links.

HTH

Thanks for the answer man, I appreciate it.

The point I was trying to make here with my question is whether using A-B-C linking trades is better than standard recip linking, as far as links are on different hosts and different owners, but also very related one to another.
I think it's still better than standard recip. linking, correct me if I am wrong? I think that's why you don't send your PR to other sites from the site you want to rank high, but from your other sites which are not that important.

Again, I may be wrong, that's why I asked.

I seriously doubt that google can find or even cares about a-b-c linking but there are rings out there that take the precaution of "diamond-linking" where it is much more complicated and involves many more participants.

The logic to detect those types of links is not really that complicated and given that they are loaded and have good degrees from reputable schools, my educated guess is that yes, they can detect them.

I detest detecting with detective work detestable links...

So basically is it better than standard recip linking all the way?

Matt Cutts has already commented (months ago) that they are fully aware of multi-way linking schemes and that it doesn't help you any more.

A ten year old with a 386 could detect 3-way, 4-way ... 20-way link exchanges.

Google, with some of the most sophisticated software (not to mention a bunch of 386s), can detect most link scams.

In recent month, some of the biggest and 'best' link farms have disintegrated.

The best approach to linking is same as it ever was - if a site is useful to your visitors, then link. Submit to Quality Directories ... and that's it for most sites.

"So basically is it better than standard recip linking all the way?"

Better if you are trying to get penalized or hurt the reputation of your domain.

It is at least the easiest way to detect someone sending an email with no clue. Once you see the word "3 way" or "three way" I can happily delete the email without reading further.

Absolutely Google will detect it.

We ran an experiment for a 3 way linking system on a site and the pages on which we placed the outbound links were stripped to "0". We did this with a well known link exchange network, which we thought was exchanging quality on topic links with the same theme.

Sadly their system has introduced SPAM links to try and make their networks larger and more undetectable, but Google also probably matches the theme of the pages to links, so if you have a building construction site and you have lingerie advertised on it, Google kinda seems to understand the irrelevance as well.

Google can identify the "scheme" and it can potentially spread havoc for any pages that hold links in the network, by stripping their PR.

We do not even worry about links. We find our time better spent adding content. Content is still king!

OK, nice answers...

What about exchanging links WITH ONLY RELEVANT websites? I mean if you have ringtones website you get links and link to ringtones websites ONLY!

I think that's ok, as far as you do not trade with scamming networks of many sites....but let's say you trade with 10ish webmasters with 2-3 sites in their net, all relevant one to another.
Do you think this is still bad?

My Contribution to this is that I see a lot off sites with 1,000s of incoming links,

seriously out ranked in the SERPs by sites with just about 100 inlinks

so,,

Perhaps you should listen to the guys above :-)

Try to stabilize your linking structure.

Don't overdo it..

It's OK to have a few of everything..

A few reciprocal links
A few 3 way links
A few links direct to your site due to contents
etc.

Make sure not to go wild with either one, if you will, Google will detect and spam your site.

If you keep asking long enough, somone will give you the answer you so obviously want to hear.

While you are waiting, you have some good advice to be going on with ;)

Technically, detecting 3 ways and diamond linking is not hard, you jsut need enough processing power and hardrive space. Google has both.

a links to b, b links to c, c links to d, index all a,b,c,d and all sites linking to/from them and you can find a pattern, at the very least enough to raise a flag.

Even easier? Those that send out link requests for 3 way links. its a direct violation of googles tos, and I am sure plenty of people send them straight through to google as a spam report.

> A ten year old with a 386 could detect 3-way, 4-way ... 20-way link exchanges

hmmmmmmmmmm ... Anyone can detect than A links to B and C links to A. But as far as I know it is impossible for a human or a machine to know that it is links trading BUT NOT natural linking. To know that it is a links exchange, you have to analyse the sites much further (check if B is on the same server as C, check if C has the same theme as A, etc. etc. etc. and then you can only make suppositions).

On the other hand, "A-B B-A" is pure links exchange (unless A links to site B without knowing that B links to him lol).

So in my opinion A-B-C linking is always better than A-B-A. However it's better to make a quality site in order to get natural and quality backlinks without having to trade anything! :-)

[edited by: Frederic1 at 11:09 am (utc) on Sep. 27, 2006]

Frederic, its NOT better.

a-b b-a links may happen between sites of similar topics recommedning each other.

a-b b-c links only occur to game google, there is no other purpose.

You straight away raise a red flag of linking for the purpose of gaming google. A hand test adding links to your site will show that you are doing 3 ways links, manual ban.

Do so at your own risk, if ever a competitor overakes one of my sites, and I see they are doing 3ways?

spam report, bye bye their rankings.

I am sure plenty of people send them straight through to google as a spam report.

Yeah, I never understand why people send these type of requests out to people they don't know. Emails like this are forwarded on so easily.

[en.wikipedia.org...]

if ever a competitor overakes one of my sites, and I see they are doing 3ways?
spam report, bye bye their rankings.

That is the epitome of a SPAM (Sites Positioned Above Mine) report.


I can't stand scrapers and scammers, but tattletales are the worst, especially when the person being tattled on is not doing something blatantly wrong that is clearly hurting someone else.

Content theft, well obviously stealing from someone to any degree is wrong. But reporting someone for how they choose to link, that's just wrong in my opinion.

I can't stand scrapers and scammers, but tattletales are the worst, especially when the person being tattled on is not doing something blatantly wrong that is clearly hurting someone else.

I think it is fairly safe to assume that the world is filled with the kinds of people you refer to as tattletales and that an appreciable amount of unsolicited link scheme email request get forwarded on to the search engine spam control groups.

SincerelySandy

Um, you are joking right? A spammer gaming google, knocks one of my sites off from no.1 position, halves my income, and I should pretend I am in a school yard and not say a thing, not tattletale?

Honestly, you are kidding yourself. If I did not do it, another will anyway.

I am not going to sit back with a white hat site, and have spammer above me. Bugger that!

and on that note... when would it be right in your opinion to dob then?

Hidden text?
Cloaking?
Spam network?

Are you saying some breaches of gooogles TOS are OK, whilst others are not?

Well, so far as reporting abuses, anything that a site above yours did to get there, is hurting someone (you yourself.) So it's not a matter of not hurting anyone anymore. It's only a matter of whether it's something Google will recognize as abuse.

As for how complicated the link structure has to be before Google notices it: two words, "partitionable matrix."

For the non-mathematically inclined, it's conceptually a very simple algorithm: coding it (for small networks, of course) is a standard week's assignment in CS classes.

And the algorithm neither knows nor cares how many steps it takes to go from any member of the cabal to any other member, nor where the routes cross. All that matters is that there IS a route.

So . . . . .

You have a page that has numerous outbound links, but this page has no inbound links.

You have pages that link to you with many outbound links, these page have no inbound links.

You check to see if these "link orphan" pages are in the google index and . . . . bad recip

Let's say I am selling art, but I don't do picture framing. I strike up a relationship with someone that does framing and I link to him as a resource from one of my main pages. They link to me from one of their main pages as a resource.

All is good, the customers have more helpfull data, and we both make more money.

Good recip

I would say a link out to an "authority" might actaully help if it's on topic - I have no problems with putting up a quality outbound link and I have one site ranking top of the charts with more outbound quality links than in. Gets back to what is good for the user, I don't give a rip what google thinks - Who is building your sites? You or google? If your builing blocks all have the letter "g" posted on them then good luck your gonna crash.

I am sure plenty of people send them straight through to google as a spam report.

It's doubtful they are addressed unless the issue is ridiculously out of hand. Even at best, the requests are sent from differing emails than the business itself and therefore cannot be rasied back to a penalty on any business.

It's fairly obviously linking schemes are detectable period.

Someone said it best when they mentioned to get quality links from quality sites including directories that you think will be there in 5 years. Link only with others when their site offering great quality for your visitors and augments what you do.

Of every 1000 sites, possible 3 are quality. The rest are simply selling the same thing, or offer the same information.