I completely agree with you about the importance of addressing the pollution and humanitarian issues caused by the use of kerosene for lighting in rural areas of developing countries. The fact that the yearly consumption of jet fuel in the United States is equal to the yearly consumption of kerosene used for home lighting in the rest of the world is truly staggering and highlights the need for a solution.

It's great to hear that technology such as solar panels and rechargeable lamps can solve this problem.

I didn't know this was a problem. Would be great to see the wealthier nations put that to the forefront of efforts to clean up the air (if it is, I've not seen that in the news and that's the kind of news I'm interested in!).

welcome to WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com], cameronisaac and youngdaniil!

This is too silly foo---with nothing relatable to webmastering---and inches into politics and social/environmental issues that are even less relatable to building, hosting, serving, or monetizing the web.

You will likely find this 2017 university article interesting, it explains the tech gap between us and them further [knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu...]

This is too silly foo---with nothing relatable to webmastering---and inches into politics and social/environmental issues that are even less relatable to building, hosting, serving, or monetizing the web. ~ Tangor

Wow, I'd ask "building for who? hosting for who? serving for who? monetizing the web for who? It belongs to everyone. But you answered that in your reply without realizing it, I think. This isn't about you, but your webmaster skills could be part of the solution. Read it first?

The tech this thread is about is needed, and the purpose of it is to raise webmaster awareness so they START writing about it, clearly most are unaware this very specific problem is affecting Millions. It's slipped through the cracks. How could the tech be improved? I'd rather hear your suggestions or see your silence, pls take the insults to sticky, or report the thread for a mod to decide.

I didn't know this was a problem. Would be great to see the wealthier nations put that to the forefront of efforts to clean up the air (if it is, I've not seen that in the news and that's the kind of news I'm interested in!) ~ Martinibuster

It is a known problem that has never caught enough media wind to raise awareness. I posted it here in hopes the right person reads it and everyone else learns something about a tech imbalance and resulting climate issue.

If you read the University article linked at the top of this reply, they mentioned Naru. A company called Nuru Energy has been attempting to make headway on the problem, but they can't do it alone, and I believe they are making a couple of critical mistakes.... but don't knock them, they are doing more than most. Nuru Energy on Wikipedia - [en.wikipedia.org...]

My opinion - Someone needs to come up with a simple lantern design powered by a solar cell. They need to be physically traded for the kerosene lanterns, and those kerosene lanterns need to be refurbished as well. Instead of using bicycles to recharge them, they need to be charged with solar, but the lantern circuit needs to be as optimized as possible (financially and power consumption wise) to make sense.

I like what Nuru Energy did, but people have to be able to charge them as easily as it is to pour Kerosene. These people don't need Elon's satellites as much as they need a simple circuit and his efficient solar cells. Ideally, they'd fit right on the lantern. Forget about profit, design the most optimal circuit possible, and help families eliminate Kerosene dependence....

My goals here are not political, or to put Elon in a good light. In fact, if he gets to Mars and millions here on earth can't turn on a light without Kerosene I'd rather the rockets be grounded until EVERYONE can.

The lanterns to convert are already in those villages! Efficient bulbs that can take a bit of abuse are already in our car junkyads! So close....

I'll even share how I got into this last fall, someone might find it interesting and pick up the baton...

I picked up a few lanterns over the years, but never wanted to light them with Kerosene indoors. The look is appealing, but buying Kerosene isn't. I started looking around online for ideas to convert it to electricity, but all I found was how to add wiring to plug it in.... which didn't work for where I wanted to hang them.

'Fine, I'll make my own I thought, I have the shop, tools and tinkering experience so how hard could it be?'. Surprisingly, actually. The base is big enough to hold a power cell, but not the current rechargeable cells, which are almost all square for use in things like remote control toys.

I ended up cutting an old broken cordless drill open and extracting the cells, they were built in. I then removed the wick assembly from the lantern and drilled the opening a little wider. Voila, I soldered the batteries in series with wire long enough that I could drop the batteries in one by one. It wasn't perfect but good enough to test with.

I'd have normally figured out the electrical design first, but they all had to fit through a small opening one by one. I didn't want to cut my lanterns open and went with what fit. I used the drill plug to charge the batteries, my plan was just to test to see how long they would last.

I used a replacement bulb for a Coleman lantern thinking it would be best, and I completed the circuit. Unfortunately, it drained the batteries in about 7 hours. I did the math (ohms law, very useful) and found that the best option capable of being bright enough, for as long as possible, was an LED bulb you find next to the license plate of most newer vehicles.

I learned a lot from 'The Loveland Lantern Collection' while tinkering on my own lanterns, great resource.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately if the right people read it), about a month ago I happened to read a quote from a 2012 book (Technologies and Innovations for Development: Scientific Cooperation for a Sustainable Future 2012 Edition) describing just how much Kerosene is used for lighting in rural areas of underdeveloped countries, and it matched the amount of jet fuel (it's Kerosene based) being burned in the US each year.

Wikipedia confirms, complete with a link to the book. [en.wikipedia.org...]

My thought at the time. Why am I sitting here in a developed country and having to figure out how to convert a lantern to rechargeable when MILLIONS have needed this for years. Shouldn't it be done already? It's not, far from. They have 200-year-old tech, we have new tech, but the connection was not made.

How hard is it to refurbish a lantern? Not very. If Nuru Energy's model had been to convert their existing lanterns, instead of giving them new rechargeable lanterns and riding a bike to recharge them, the sun could do the charging and their lanterns would no longer be able to burn Kerosene.

Their model failed when people found it easier just to go back to the Kerosene lanterns.

If only we lived in a world where big tech called code-red on issues like this, not just when their ad revenue model is threatened. You sure do read about "we are a leader in innovation" a lot, though. Show it, lead and innovate for those you overlook, too. Actually, do that first pls.

Other than virtue signaling wildly off topic, your point for webmasters is... What?

Most countries that rely on kerosene LIGHTING don't have computers or running water, much less electricity.

Admire the passion, but wonder about the place and presentation. Good thing this is foo.

(Won't get into the environmental destruction to mine and refine the rare earths to make solar cells, or the carbon dioxide expended, cost of transportation with fossil fuels to deliver these... lights.)

Kerosene lanterns work because they are affordable, reliable, and don't cost new tech. Are beeswax candles next on the hit list?

Wow, great questions, let me answer them so nobody else has to ask them again.

Other than virtue signaling wildly off topic, your point for webmasters is... What?

Is stated, reading it required.

Most countries that rely on kerosene LIGHTING don't have computers or running water, much less electricity.

Yup, how you can help is explained, with sources.

Admire the passion, but wonder about the place and presentation. Good thing this is foo.

Ditto on the response.

(Won't get into the environmental destruction to mine and refine the rare earths to make solar cells, or the carbon dioxide expended, cost of transportation with fossil fuels to deliver these... lights.)

You just did, but the alternative is explained above, you only need to read. (Besides, it sounds like you are arguing FOR fossil fuel? The lights already exist, so do the lanterns that would be CONVERTED in place, read?)

Kerosene lanterns work because they are affordable, reliable, and don't cost new tech.

You do know that Kerosene is literally aviation fuel? It's made from oil, like gas and diesel. Same source, petroleum. You know, that stuff currently being phased out for electricity not everyone has access to (but could for lighting at least, I explained how, it was the point of this thread! read?).

Are beeswax candles next on the hit list?

There is no hit list, besides you not reading and making assumptions anyway? Candles aren't an option in those places. You can research why yourself. I think the university article I linked covered that too, actually.

Take it to sticky, or report the thread, if you have issue with what I wrote? Otherwise, constructive debate about the topic (and not about me) is more helpful. No need to defend the Foo forum, you can come and read (or choose not to and just argue). It's the world we live in now.

If Brett changes the forum charter and excludes tech discussion that helps people off fossil fuels, this type of discussion ends. No biggie. Unfortunately, climate change is a growing discussion that needs all hands on deck, right down to the "lowly" webmaster messengers.

Someone needs to come up with a simple lantern design powered by a solar cell [...] people have to be able to charge them as easily as it is to pour Kerosene.

See: GravityLight

GravityLight was a gravity-powered lamp manufactured until 2019. It was designed by the company Deciwatt for use in developing or third-world nations, as a replacement for kerosene lamps. It uses a bag filled with rocks or earth, attached to a cord, which slowly descends similar to the weight drive in a cuckoo clock.

Source: [en.wikipedia.org...]

Tried, failed, discontinued. The business model issues aside (the tech is what matters)...

It failed on two key requirements. Remember that the kerosene lantern is the standard, so any solution needs to be better to encourage use.

1. It wasn't very portable or quiet, as you can imagine with any light requiring weights. Need to run to the outhouse at night? See if that's a lion or neighbor outside after dark? You get the idea.

A weight based charging system is possible, but it would need to be a fixed location charging system used to charge a cell in the lantern. The solution needs to be as portable (and quiet) as a kerosene lantern, or it won't be used.


2. It needs to look like a lantern. The reason for that is a social one. These people are happy, self-sufficient, weary of outsiders and live a different existence that we do in the US.

Imagine the replacement is a red box. It would be easily recognizable as different, even if it's just like a lantern. This causes problems in how it's used, debates about which is best, upsets local beliefs and might actually lead to a type of political revolt against it. "Get that out of here, that's outsider voodoo, this is our way" type stuff. They aren't trivial.

If you haven't seen it, watch clips from a movie titled "the gods must be crazy". In the movie, a pilot drops an empty bottle of coke from the plane, and it lands in a remote African village. The bottle causes them all kinds of problems, and leads to a young warrior going on a journey to throw it off the edge of the world.

It's an extreme take on social issues, but it's based in reality. Taking something they already have and improving it, but not changing its appearance much, would be better. Even if you can't relate to the lifestyle, you have to respect they are human and don't answer to outsiders.

Note: An example of a stationary weight based power generator is the MK2. An alternative to weight based is spinning disk based, which are both similar.

>> the gods must be crazy

One of my favourite movies of all time. Highly, highly recommended!

Tried, failed, discontinued.

I'm not sure it "failed" so much as it was superseded by the same company's NowLight, a design which evolved out of Gravity Light:

NowLight was launched in April 2020 and to date it has been distributed on a trial basis to off-grid communities in 12 countries in sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia. [...]

NowLight conveys a range of benefits to users who would otherwise live without electricity, or who only have access to an unreliable source of electricity. These benefits include reduced household expenditure on fuels (for example kerosene or candles), eliminating the need to pay for mobile phone charging and facilitating paid work or education after dark. Overall the benefits of NowLight are comparable to those seen by users of pico-solar products, but with the additional benefit of greater reliability. [...]

NowLight is significantly more expensive to produce than equivalent ‘solar-only’ products. For this reason we do not anticipate that NowLight will be widely distributed as a consumer product in off-grid areas, except in those areas where sunlight may be particularly unreliable (for example, an area with a prolonged rainy season). However, NowLight is more valuable in emergency response contexts where the reliability conferred via manual power generation functionality can justify the additional cost over solar alternatives.

Source: [red-social-innovation.com...]

The Deciwatt website confirms:

In 2019 we stopped manufacturing GravityLight to focus on a new product called NowLight.
Source: [deciwatt.global...]

It's great to hear that technology such as solar panels and rechargeable lamps can solve this problem. The idea of using solar panels the size of a backpack to recharge 3-4 lamps per day is really innovative and practical. As a society, we need to pay more attention to these issues and work towards providing access to safe and sustainable energy sources for all. <snip>

[edited by: not2easy at 5:35 pm (utc) on Jan 24, 2023]
[edit reason] No links, please see ToS [/edit]