China: no real freedom of speech, no choice for different political parties, total censorship preventing people from being able to speak about improving the political landscape they have to live with, etc etc.

Google: "Your privacy doesn't really matter."

Talking about China and Google is like talking about two crimin...err less then ideal participating individuals in society and which one is more righteous.

- John

China: 1 billion(!) people out of poverty and starvation within 20 years. That's what counts.

US style "Freedom": Every day tens of thousands of dead "free" children in Afrika, after pouring in over 2 trillion dollar of "aid".

One may not agree with many thing in China, but its successful for the benefit of the population, more so than a facade of democracy the west likes to introduce anywhere it gets involved in.

What Google is doing is plain wrong, there are laws and its is not an arrogant company's choice to interpret or alter them.

Google may be happy to be thrown out of China - they may even consider it to be a PR coup...

They'll be able to say things like "we put principle ahead of profit" and "we're standing up for freedom". Google may even consider a major PR war against China. Without doubt, China has benefitted greatly from a soft line being taken by Western countries but as economic power moves east, that soft line is likely to harden - Google may be in a mood to preempt this.

Kaled.

yaix2, I suppose one could justify one evil with something completely unrelated...oh wait, you totally missed my point.

I don't trust companies like Google and I don't trust governments. Anyone who does doesn't understand why it's critically important for a people's freedom and privacy that we must hold anyone in power regardless of whether it's political or not accountable for their actions.

- John

If the Gorg fights for freedom in China, I expect the Gorg to fight for freedom everywhere. Walk the walk. Lessee if the Gorg fights for my freedom from PII tracking and lessee how the Gorg resolves copyright battles.

Google makes $600m/yr in China. Many Google projects (and staffers) are getting shut down over money. They need money badly.

My prediction? Google will stay in China.

Let's see, the US trying to force their way of life on the rest of the world? Yawn, what else is new?

Google makes $600m/yr in China. Many Google projects (and staffers) are getting shut down over money. They need money badly

huh? google is running low on money?

Let's see, the US trying to force their way of life on the rest of the world? Yawn, what else is new?

Yes because Google is run by the government of the United States ::rolls eyes::

I don't trust companies like Google and I don't trust governments.

And nobody should. I just read somewhere:

Lehman has become merely the latest example of all that is broken with today's crony capitalist system.... The evident conclusion is that the core driver of modern capitalist society is fraud at its very core, and nothing short of a massive revolutionary overhaul of the political system, which is the number one defender .. of very lucrative bribes and kickbacks originating from the same rotten Wall Street that (is) nothing but a sham filled with toxic assets

And who voted for the laws to be changed so this could happen and individuals could cash in through their corporations?
The teachers of democracy which is something that does not exist at all.
Same those that let ads like "no cash, no job, no worries" run around in magazines when the housing market was booming - artificially.

Governments have been known for poisoning and killing their own people through various means.

It is unfortunate that actually no side here is positive, however you look at it.

China: 1 billion(!) people out of poverty and starvation within 20 years. That's what counts.

Yes, this is a success and truly impressive. But I must remind that its only because of the US and other countries: consuming like crazy for 20 years.

Anyways, this is a philosophical debate, but coming from an ex-dictatorship country, I can only support G in this case.

The CPC helped for the last 20 years, but will only harm the next 20.

It makes no sense to criticize capitalism and praise the economic boom in China at the same time.

1. The boom in China is largely the result of demand in capitalist countries.
   
2. The demand is satisfied largely by capitalist enterprises.
   

Ok, the rules in which businesses have to operate are different to those in the West, but it is most definitely capitalism. Indeed, in many areas, you could say that the capitalism in China is far more extreme than in the West. For instance, there is far less regulation, fewer planning problems and little welfare for the poorest in society. And, then you have reckless construction of coal-powered generation, wanton destruction of natural habitats and massive pollution. If Western nations were equally irresponsible, we would either be in the middle of a global boom or mankind would be rapidly heading towards extinction, maybe both.

People often criticise the West (and the US in particular) for being bossy. However, China frequently threatens other countries economically and helps to maintain humanitarian catastrophes in such countries as North Korea and Burma. China will also prop up and arm any despotic regime willing to supply it with raw materials.

And returning to China being bossy - just a few weeks ago they tried telling the US President who he could talk to and who not to talk to - i.e. the Dalai Lama. If I'd been advising President Obama, I'd have told him to to diplomatically tell China to get stuffed.

Returning to the topic - Google - I definitely think that getting kicked out of China could make good business sense if the PR people handle it properly. It would also make the Chinese government look extremely authoritarian and considerable problems could ensue over time.

Kaled.

China will kick Google out, but Google will be back.

China tried kicking some businesses out of Hong Kong only to find that was a very bad move, so they let them stay.

Google will be back and with less restrictions than before. Google will make more money, China will make more money, and even America will make more money in the end.

SCORE:

Totalitarianism pretending to be perfect Communism:
1 point (a small temporary victory)

Consumerism and Capitalism chugging along imperfectly:
10 duotrigintillion points (i.e. a "GOOGOL")

:)