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Forum graveyard (ER too)

Forum forensics, why forums die?

         

explorador

9:05 pm on Jun 19, 2024 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I still have my websites running, and among many stories, one of those sites had it's own forum (I also created other forums for the company I was working for, and one became a community) but due to space I will only focus on my dead forum. Yeah, forums can require a lot of work, specially if the place relates to your website and it's an authority site. Chances are, if you create your own content, you are also an authority and thus, you are the one usually posting the most relevant content, that's a lot of work.

But, on the bright side, the many questions posted there meant for me a constant river of fresh ideas for new engaging content for the website. Due to lack of time, and sadly... people asking services (paid ones) that I was not interested on exploring, I closed the forum and archived the content. In this specific scenario, the challenge was lack of helpers, lack of people with the same knowledge helping to solve the threads and correct the direction of the conversations. Moderation sometimes it's not enough, as the moderation can even kill a thread, in such cases the fresh proper knowledge is what keeps the forum alive. Even today, more than 10 years after closing the forum, I seem to be one of the few knowing diverse topics, meaning "it's lonely out here", and creating another forum will likely lead to the same place.

What forums did you visit, and why do you think those forum died?

Taking the thread as a possible place for case-discussion, probably the names of the forums will be relevant, perhaps the links. I'm not sure given the circumstances this will be allowed (remember "no links"), but being a website about websites, the web, and content, don't you think this could become an exception?

- - - -

"X" (I'll post the name/link later, probably, if I get feedback on this being allowed), Well, "X", was I think the first forum I joined. It features information of places around the world around rock climbing, and it was fun. Suddenly I became the most active forum member of my area (and contributor), posting routes, directions, help, tips, etc. Soon I became familiar with some recurring nicknames, some were authority figures of knowledge, both for climbing, sports in general, and life. Some people posting there were famous and appeared on TV, magazines, interviews, of diff kind, etc., some were legends whose achievements remain till this day. You could post a question and receive jokes (good ones), information, feedback, advice, etc. It was literally a learning place. Due to the circumstances, people from all over the world asked me questions about my country, and many of them came here to climb with me (with us, along with friends).

But then... negativity and toxicity contaminated the forum. Suddenly trolls took over, then you rarely got answers, why? trolls were faster than the moderators, and sometimes the threads would die before actually taking off. Some discussions took place online, some were very heated discussions, sometimes the super mods had to draw boundaries over and over.

Then, it happened: you opened a thread... and right away 1 or 2 hours later you regretted your actions. Things would be taken in the wrong direction, out of context, useless criticism, jokes, and challenges. Some people stood up, but you get tired of this eventually. Traffic went down, but then there was some cleaning, people got banned, penalized, etc., and peace returned, but only for a while as traffic was going down. Then, besides the trolls, we had interesting people (professionals in math, science, etc.) who were literal jerks, they would behave in ways that nobody liked, while also contributing, it was a clear case of toxicity, you couldn't have the best of them without seeing their worst.

A few years later I left the club because of an injury, and I saw the forum die. You could still see traffic, dying traffic, but still movement. Yet, none of the nicknames meant anything to me, many topics were irrelevant, and most times nobody replied, it became a collection of dead or dying threads, no longer than 5 posts, perhaps 1 page if lucky, and that doesn't mean all the posts were relevant.

It was fun while it lasted, mostly because the forum needed interventions of the coders who were collaborators volunteering, and this was contagious, the level of commitment I mean.

That forum is entirely dead now, I think toxicity killed it. Feel free to share similar stories where we can all learn from.

engine

11:39 am on Jun 20, 2024 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I've used and run forums in some shape of form for a very long time.

There are a number of things affecting any online community, and here's my quick take of a few, in no particular order, with some aspects affecting forums more than others.
Technology changes, which means forums aren't always appropriate to host.
The trend to short form and chat isn't appropriate to the long form format of forums.
People change: Jobs change, they move their business, they leave the sector, they lose interest, they retire, and, sadly, expire.
Search driving traffic: The vast majority of forums were hit a few years back by google's shift from giving forums exposure. It's also much harder to find solutions in forums through search. Of course, it's now preferring to drive traffic to reddit, or to its own properties such as YT.
Topics become irrelevant through technology developments.
Working practices change.
Disruptive technology changes the landscape: We're seeing it now with the developments in AI.
Platforms: For example, YouTube, X twitter, FB, TikTok, etc., dissipate discussion, with certain age groups favouring short-form video and UGC.
Social media in general has been a time suck and offers easy short-form UGC.
People are becoming much more aware of privacy, and that affects their decision to join a community.
Seasonal changes: Holiday periods can impact traditional traffic and discussion.

Let me give an example, without the specifics: One forum i've been a member of for a good number of years is very specific to a manufacturer's technology. That technology is now being replaced by alternative technology. The manufacturer has, in effect, no longer supplied a new product for a few years, and the support becomes less relevant as people's hardware eventually fails. That particular forum was very specific.

Here's another example: I used to belong to as travel forum as i'd run a travel-related site. The forum lost its quality over time as the moderators became washed out and left. New moderator recruitments were inexperienced and failed to get on top of the comment spam. The discussion quality continued to decline, and many of the quality participants gave up wading through the spam. Quality, quality, quality went missing.

Just my $2c

Mark_A

11:58 am on Jun 20, 2024 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I still use this and one other forum. I am anon behind a username on them both.
The other forum is by comparison very busy and is a general purpose community.

I did spend some time on facebook with my real name, but I haven't visited for more than a year or two now.
I keep wondering if I might dip my toe in again, but so far I am resisting.

WebmasterWorld needs more contributors imo, I don't know how many lurkers there are but posters are what is needed.

Brett_Tabke

12:36 pm on Jun 20, 2024 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Google has been positively psychotic on UCG the last 10-12 years. They love it - they hate it - no lets say we love it, but actually still hate it. You'll get whiplash watching what G is/has/will be doing in the UCG space.

This is the web in Googles image. Smalls sites have dried up to nothing. The basic web structure as we know it has contracted. Actual maintained and serviced websites - as we knew them 2000-2010 have all but been eliminated. What is left are service industry sites, the random "news" blog, and the rare ecommerce site selling direct.

And now, we have the flood of AI content (which imho is better than the cess pool of twitter/reddit or even LinkedIn spam any day)

Panda - Google decided they don't like UCG.
Penguin - Google decided they really really hate UCG
HCU - Google decided they still hate forums, but they hate forums less than they hate Twitter/Elon/AI Content.

Twitter and Facebook exposure has all but dried up in Google. Meanwhile everyone points a finger at Reddit (which is not a forum, but a hybrid social network).

Regardless of what some bloggers are saying, forum content is not being surfaced at a higher rate in Google. The highest rate for forum content was just pre-Panda. Sites like FlyerTalk (the largest forum on the web in 2010) was almost 500k referrals a day from Google in 2010. Today it is less than 10k (and most of those are site searches). Sitepoint was doing 250k referrals a day from Google in late 2010. Today that has dropped to a fraction (Last I heard it was less than 7k two years ago).
And us here - we were doing over 100k a day in 2010, and doing less than 1k today.

> WebmasterWorld needs more contributors imo,

Sure, but our decline in posters is not entirely Googles fault. The social networks absorbed much of the discussion that used to take place on the open web. Identity became more powerful than an intriguing discussion. I catch myself all the time posting on Facebook instead of here.

explorador

5:03 pm on Jun 20, 2024 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I tried interacting on Facebook, didn't like it. There are plenty of groups (english, spanish, etc.), but I dislike:

- People making terribly constructed questions
- Many times after some answers, it turns out "I meant something else"
- Nobody posts anything useful, they can't, most are using their phones
- It's plagued by short comments, most of them around the obvious
- Rarely someone says thank you (on coding groups)
- On graphic design and UX, people are very different (positively!)
- I haven't yet seen a single FB discussion good enough to bookmark it
- FB, IMHO, it's also plagued by lazy newbies "how do [x] on Wordpress?"
- Nobody seems to be interested on optimization of any kind
- Most people face issues suggesting "upgrade to a more powerful server"
- I'm too old to consider emoticons and smiley faces as content or interaction

Mostly: I haven't found a single Facebook group post or discussion that made me grow, improve, or expand my work to the next level.

I've had my battles with diff coding problems, but I don't consider new platforms ok for just pasting code and saying "this is not working, can anyone fix it?", that's too lazy. And I dislike how most people seem to fail to understand human language, there is a good topic about this under discussion on an spanish forum, and it's getting quality traction. I remember when I first posted about people getting dumber (I did here among other forums) and people labeled me as nuts because that wasn't the case, but the traction around the same topic has grown, sure, because it's real.

From where I'm standing, I'm seeing people on a few forums craving interaction, these are quality posters, but it seems things don't work due to being low in numbers.

buckworks

12:22 pm on Jun 23, 2024 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Add legal problems to the list of reasons why forums die. Or are killed!

I used to take part in an industry-related forum whose founder/owner was repeatedly threatened with legal action because of content that some people posted. Eventually he decided that enough was enough and one day the forum was gone. I understood why he did that but it was disappointing that people lost their chance to exchange contact info to stay in touch outside the forum.

explorador

8:56 pm on Jun 23, 2024 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



buckworks: Add legal problems to the list of reasons why forums die. Or are killed!
So true, and not fair.

Someone local created a forum for printers. Honestly, it was a gem, it covered specific tricks and tips for Eps.n (is it ok to mention the brand? mods remove the hint if it's not), it wasn't a forum about hacking, it was mostly about maintenance so you could revive your old printer and keep it going, or upgrade to other models within the same brand. Granted, yes there were some threads about bypassing certain disable features, or how to enable reusing some cartridges.

But guess what? not even those threads were the problem. The issue was the name of the forum, as the domain included the brand with a twist, basically the name meant "fans of the brand", and one day the legal dept contacted them with a cease and desist and wanting to get the ownership of the domain. The forum owner was furious, mostly HURT, and o was the community, he explained he loved the brand and everything was free, besides promoting loyalty to the brand, but no, they didn't want to hear about it.

The guy vented all the docs on another forum (and his), and resorted to "donating" the domain name to another forum member, and the name would bounce from forum member to another taking advantage of some legal trick (I don't remember the details). But the brand fired back and gained the ownership of the domain by force. The forum died, entirely, lots of knowledge gone, and most of the users said they would never buy another printer of that brand ever again. Funny, I have 7 printers at home, and none of them are Eps...n.

I remember the original owners made them a decent proposal (free of charge) to keep the forum going, insisting "we love your brand", but nope...