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How much to charge agencies to subcontract

         

Oimachi2

1:39 am on Mar 22, 2022 (gmt 0)

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If you look at Youtube and the internet, it's full of flakes saying "charge what you want" they all say to charge high and sell "value" etc...

But in the real world, agencies want affordable rates, no matter how "valuable" I think I am.

So what is a reasonable hourly rate to bill agencies?

My retail rate is $40 and it seems to be too high for agencies, and I keep losing opportunities. I have 15 years experience and can build pretty much anything and have references and raving reviews, but in this world, seems to make no difference.

I need to pay the rent....

What is realistic in 2022?

$10 an hour?
$15 an hour?
$20 an hour?
$30 an hour?

Kendo

3:15 am on Mar 22, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



It depends on where you are and your cost of living. I have been hiring freelancers for more than 20 years and currently pay US$35/hour for the best Mac developer that I have ever encountered, and US$20/hour for the best Windows C++ dev and the best Android dev. They are not locals but they are the pick of them all... I keep the good ones.

Oimachi2

3:23 am on Mar 22, 2022 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Man that's depressing, so say I learn to code with [theodinproject.com...] , I do the 1000 hours, I'm 52, I'd be worth like $5 an hour? Even if I've been building websites for 20 years?

If the best C++ guy is $20 an hour, how can I even get a chance? ;)

Kendo

7:28 am on Mar 24, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Like I said, it depends on locality. If in USA and hiring locally the same skills may charge $130+ but how they get that is beyond me. However I do see a lot of banter on Quora about paying for quality code. But hey, who are they trying to kid. If code works perfectly how much better can it be?

As for comments about messy code, every new code taking over one of my projects complains about having to clean up the code. That has to be nonsense because they cannot all be right. As for leaving old code (uncommented code) in a project, I personally think it a good practice because it provides reference as to how the current code came about and who changed it. Uncommented code has no impact on the performance of an application whatsoever.

The coders that I use have been found after a long process of elimination. If they wanted more I would pay it, but they obviously have a cheaper cost of living. But I can say that paying 8 hours at $20 is whole lot better than paying for 30 hours at a higher rates for the same task when they are obviously not deserved.

Essex_boy

11:18 pm on Apr 26, 2022 (gmt 0)

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$20 ph for C++ programmer ? Christ thats low

explorador

3:33 pm on Apr 27, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Oimachi2:
  • How much to charge agencies to subcontract
  • I have 15 years experience and can build pretty much anything
  • But in the real world, agencies want affordable rates, no matter how "valuable" I think I am.
  • My retail rate is $40 and it seems to be too high for agencies, and I keep losing opportunities


Many of us have been there, perhaps it's worth looking at this from a purely business perspective (model, efficiency, profit), even if it means looking into different directions. How much to charge is a complex game because depending on your client, they might be looking for cheap prices, and you should not want to be the cheap guy because you will never get out of there, but also, perhaps you have way too much experience and they still just need someone to put a nail on the wall, so, they will pay average low market price for that, regardless of your picasso skills. Yah, sadly how valuable you are (objectively or from a personal view) can have little impact if all they are looking for is a price that allows them to keep their profit margins safe. What matters here is to stop loosing opportunities.

What I have learned is the web is VERY volatile, including work derived from agencies, this means it doesn't matter how great of a job you do, most of those sites won't even be alive after the first year (or two tops), specially not having direct access to the clients because you won't be able of providing advice and guidance. It's rare to find an agency that does proper SEO ensuring the clients have long lasting websites. This can also happen with direct clients if they don't allow you to guide them. So in my opinion, it's charge-once and bye bye, not much investment and ROI there.

I do believe you should charge based on what you can provide, and given your experience, it's different from the average joe, but agencies pretty sure won't engage with this, and thus, you will be loosing opportunities. Not to mention the websites you build might not be something you want to include on your portfolio because they don't speak about your work 100%.

I mentioned approaching this from a purely business perspective, because in terms of income and time/profit, you might be doing better on something else, like, painting walls (just an expression). In my personal case, I ended up rejecting offers to focus on something different, as it was more efficient than dealing with clients or agencies, the problem was I wanted to do what I like to do "websites", but I ended up moving away, yes, and I don't regret it. Someone from this forum with lots of experience in Europe shared in the past how he moved to the tshirt business.

The previous paragraphs might sound too general, let's go to the specifics. Building a website: text, copy writing, photography, video, HTML+CSS, coding, etc. Sometimes doing all of that ends up turning into cheap money, but sometimes focusing on one of those services ends up being more profitable, like let's say photography or video. I started in photography, and in this regard I enjoyed more getting there, doing the job, leaving, delivering and getting paid, VS the whole show. So yes, from a purely business perspective, sometimes focusing on just one service/product can simplify your life, workflow and income. Hope that I made some sense of these words.

Brett_Tabke

5:34 pm on Jun 2, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Great thread!

You look at some of the stuff on Fiver and those guys appear to have work at various levels of pay. I know someone who charges $55 an hour for JS work and has plenty of work.

Kendo

2:52 am on Jun 5, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Fiverr can be an interesting catchment area. I have a couple of $5 gigs... sold a couple of them and some enquiries led to $300 sales.