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X Barely Breaking Even

         

engine

11:37 am on Jan 25, 2025 (gmt 0)

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According to reports, Musk appears to be communicating with X employees that the company is "barely breaking even".

Ever since Elon Musk closed his deal to buy Twitter he’s claimed the company, now called X, is in “a very dire situation from a revenue standpoint.”

Now, the Wall Street Journal reports that banks are preparing a coordinated move to sell off some of the $13 billion in debt they loaned Musk to finance the deal. It mentions an email sent to employees this month, also confirmed by The Verge, where the Chief Twit said, “...we’ve witnessed the power of X in shaping national conversations and outcomes,” but also claimed, “Our user growth is stagnant, revenue is unimpressive, and we’re barely breaking even.”


[theverge.com...]

Marshall

12:09 pm on Jan 25, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Maybe Musk should have followed this advice, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

graeme_p

1:55 pm on Jan 25, 2025 (gmt 0)

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How profitable was twitter before be bought it? Is it doing worse, or better?

tangor

4:06 pm on Jan 25, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Long haul will tell the story. Too soon to predict gloom.

How profitable was twitter before be bought it? Is it doing worse, or better?


Hard to tell. Dorsey's original numbers have been adjusted downwards multiple times. Some creative bookkeeping has been disclosed.

Meanwhile, X will continue, still has great market penetration, and sooner or later---under the incoming US administration---advertisers will return, after all they ARE market based like everything else. Ignoring such a large market might make THEIR shareholders start to ask questions!

graeme_p

9:43 am on Jan 26, 2025 (gmt 0)

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@tangor that is interesting, and a good point about the change of US administration.

I have already noticed that big business (especially big tech) has flexible "principles" that are entirely different in different countries and cultures, for example. I would not have expected such a rapid and blatant flip in the US. Its so obvious"

engine

10:11 am on Jan 26, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Earnings primarily came from ads, and the owner took an attitude and made changes that scared off the big advertisers. As far as I can see, they have not returned.
The subscriptions haven't replaced that loss, although, there are innovations which may help bring in new subscriptions.
The other thing is the number of people that have left and moved to other services. Many still log on but don't participate as they did.

buckworks

8:02 am on Jan 27, 2025 (gmt 0)

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>> scared off the big advertisers

Even at its best, Twitter was a difficult place to run ads cost-effectively. My experience was pre-Musk, but the return on ad spend just wasn't there. It was like pouring money into a pit of quicksand. Not sustainable.

>> left and moved to other services

Audience loss will continue, count on it, because the quality of the discourse has deteriorated so much since Musk took over.

lucy24

5:42 pm on Jan 27, 2025 (gmt 0)

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“Barely breaking even”? I thought they were losing money hand over fist.

Huh.

engine

8:43 pm on Jan 27, 2025 (gmt 0)

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The banks are looking to sell loans [reuters.com...]

graeme_p

10:52 pm on Jan 27, 2025 (gmt 0)

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it says "Banks expect to get 90 to 95 cents on the dollar, according to the Wall Street Journal, " which does not sound too bad. What sort of debt is it? If fixed interest debt issues when interest rates were lower it could be a pretty good price.

Mark_A

8:48 am on Jan 31, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Trouble with X is Musk's ownership and loud presence on the platform.
Only 50% of Americans are republican, the other 50% hate him.
Why would someone want to alienate 50% of their market?
He is having a similar effect on Tesla car sales.
And then it seems he decided it would be an idea to do a Nazi salute?

engine

9:30 am on Jan 31, 2025 (gmt 0)

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It's also about the quality of the content. Over time, the scammers and spammers have become rife and infiltrate the timeline. In addition, it does have a lot of "angry" content which is a turn off, IMHO.
I don't like to spend time filtering nonsense as that's what technology should do.

Mark_A

9:44 am on Jan 31, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Hi engine, yes, if I stray into politics on X I generally don't like what I see. Angry is a good description.

graeme_p

10:53 am on Jan 31, 2025 (gmt 0)

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I would say Musk is even less popular in the rest of the world, and is damaging Tesla and X globally.

He has a very poor understanding of the rest of the world too. His attempt to get involved in British politics was downright stupid. Avoiding political opinion, the facts are he offered a large donation is a small political party, but then made it conditional on their allowing a person who most people (pretty much everyone, really) in the UK regard as an extremist to join, at which point his donation was rejected.

graeme_p

10:55 am on Jan 31, 2025 (gmt 0)

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@engine, the same is true for all social media though. X is generally better for me because I see more from people I actually follow, and less rage bait selected by the algorithm than I do on FB.

londrum

11:07 am on Jan 31, 2025 (gmt 0)

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I generally like X but I wish they would introduce a swearword filter (a built-in one, far larger than your mute word list, that users can choose to toggle on).
If they just let people automatically hide comments containing offensive language, and misspellings of offensive language, then a lot of the toxicity would disappear overnight

engine

11:24 am on Jan 31, 2025 (gmt 0)

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@graeme_p,
What appears to be happening is the people I follow are repeating the nonsense with their explanation by adding a balance. It then brings out more unpleasantness. I don't go down the pub to hear the sort of nonsense that's online. In fact, it's quite rare to get the unpleasantness in a pub (if you can find one still open).

Also, the quality of the ads on the site is very poor, and that must be hitting the bottom line.

@londrum
I agree, unless i've missed it, there is no option for that. In addition, offensive language is the tip of the iceberg: Something offensive does not need to include swear words.

I've said it previously: Before the time of newspapers and social media the village idiot was only known in the village. Today's social media gives the village idiot a world-wide stage.

buckworks

10:52 pm on Jan 31, 2025 (gmt 0)

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This morning I went on a mission to remove all mention of Twitter from my websites.

By providing a button for users to share my content on Twitter I was implicitly endorsing it, and I'm no longer comfortable with that.

SumGuy

4:17 am on Feb 1, 2025 (gmt 0)

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The corporations that were flooding Twitter with money (pre-Musk) buying advertizing space, were clearly not concerned with that ROI given the fact that at the time Twitter was bloated with employees and was (I guess) operating in the black. They were clearly subsidizing twitter because their political and social leanings were aligned, it didn't matter if their ad spend made sense or not. Musk takes over and the first thing we hear from those corporations is that they're going to stop the ad spend (they want to torpedo Twitter/X) but they've since realized they need to be on X if they're going to reach anyone so they're coming back, and combined with Musk cutting back on the payroll means it's operating at least break-even.

I dabble a little on fecebook, I only started doing that about 3 or 4 years ago. I only access it from a PC (I don't own a cell phone). The thing I notice - I never see any ads. Don't know why, but it baffles me how they make money.

buckworks

10:19 am on Feb 1, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Spotted on BlueSky:

Mike Masnick
@mmasnick.bsky.social

Elon just filed his proposed second amended complaint, asking for "treble damages" for companies illegally [checks notes] not advertising on X...

The level of entitlement is insane.

[storage.courtlistener.com...]

SumGuy

2:47 pm on Feb 1, 2025 (gmt 0)

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The lawsuit is against the industry trade group known as "GARM" (Global Alliance for Responsible Media). GARM is a cross-industry initiative established by the World Federation of Advertisers (WFA) to address the impacts of purportedly harmful content on digital media platforms and in digital advertising.

In 2021, GARM launched a measurement for digital brand safety which is used to chart progress on removing harmful content from ad-supported media. Partners in this endeavor included the World Economic Forum’s Platform for Shaping the Future of Media, Entertainment and Sport, NBCUniversal, MSNBC, Facebook, and Google. GARM has also used advertisers to push for the concept of safety of online environments towards what the group calls “sustainability of media".

In July 2024, founder of media outlet “Daily Wire” Ben Shapiro spoke at a House Judiciary Committee hearing titled “Collusion in the Global Alliance for Responsible Media” in which he claimed GARM’s efforts were censoring conservative speech online. In his opening statement, Shapiro claimed that GARM acts like a cartel while alleging “Its members account for 90% of ad spending in the United States, almost a trillion dollars. In other words, if you’re not getting ad dollars from GARM members, it’s nearly impossible to run an ad-based business. And if you’re not following their preferred political narratives…you will not be deemed brand safe. Your business will be throttled.” Shapiro also claimed that GARM’s criteria for “brand safety standards” on restricting content considered “Hate speech,” “Harassment,” “Misinformation” and “insensitive;” “irresponsible” and “harmful” treatment of “debated sensitive social issues;” is “highly subjective in theory. And…purely partisan in practice.” He further called on Congress to, “investigate the informal and perhaps formal arrangements between censorship cartels like GARM and executive branch agencies,” while claiming Congress itself must stop violating “free speech principles.

In the current lawsuit, it is being alleged that:

The conduct of Defendants and their co-conspirators alleged herein is a group boycott in violation of Section 1 of the Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1. Defendants and their co-conspirators agreed to boycott Twitter by withholding purchases of digital advertising from Twitter.

The conduct of Defendants and their co-conspirators alleged herein is per se illegal, or, in the alternative, illegal under the Rule of Reason or “quick look” analytical framework. There are no procompetitive effects of the group boycott, which was not reasonably related to, or reasonably necessary for, any procompetitive objectives of the GARM Brand Safety Standards.

Alternatively, there are no procompetitive effects of the group boycott that outweigh its substantial anticompetitive effects or that could not be achieved through less restrictive means.

The conduct of Defendants and their co-conspirators has caused injury and damage to X in the form of lost profits.

The conduct alleged herein constitutes an unlawful agreement to exchange competitively sensitive information among competing advertisers in violation of Section 1 of the Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1. Defendants and their co-conspirators agreed to exchange information relating to their willingness and intent to boycott Twitter by withholding purchases of digital advertising from Twitter.

graeme_p

3:51 pm on Feb 1, 2025 (gmt 0)

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@engine - I have been luckier in the people I follow then!

As for pubs, I think unless it somewhere really rough people are generally nice in face to face than they are online. I have received some very strange insults online.

I agree with your village idiot view of social media, and am glad you included newspapers too! On the other hand they do have their uses. I am an admin of two FB groups that are of huge help to the people who use them. Both are home education related, one for those whose kids doing exams (mostly (I)GCSEs) and the other for single parents.

Mark_A

8:23 am on Feb 6, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Incidentally wrt X I can recall a few months ago Mr Musk claiming he was in favour of freedom of speech on X and that freedom of speech means permitting people to say things you don't like. Fast forward to this week and I saw a post from Mr Musk which said anyone posting things critical of the Trump government could expect their account to be frozen / suspended.

You can't have it both ways, either you are in favour of freedom of speech or you aren't!

lucy24

6:57 pm on Feb 6, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Elon just filed his proposed second amended complaint
It probably goes without saying that I misread this as “his second amendment complaint”.

tangor

8:25 pm on Feb 6, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Reading today that both Apple and Amazon will be resuming ad spend on X. GARM has been ended (but the partner "parts" are still active). X reports this year is showing a near double increase in profitability, probably due to axing bloated staffing at the time of takeover, proving yet again that less can sometimes be more.

X is not going any where but up for the foreseeable future.

As for Musk freezing accounts, he's talking about those calling for violence and assassination(s). NO MEDIA company knowingly allows incitement of violence, threats, or acts of treason. Freedom of speech goes only so far.

Mark_A

8:13 am on Feb 7, 2025 (gmt 0)

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I think for many potential Tesla buyers around the world - or potential X users or advertisers, or - you get the jist - the two Nazi salutes at Trump's inauguration were just one step too far. I just don't get what Musk was thinking before doing that.

graeme_p

8:57 am on Feb 7, 2025 (gmt 0)

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I just don't get what Musk was thinking before doing that.


I think he was thinking "this will get me lots of attention".

As I said before, that was just the latest step. I think he was already making himself very unpopular in many places. Regardless, I do think Musk is damaging the brands of his businesses.

He used to be a positive. its not that long ago that a lot of people seemed to admire him who now loathe him. I do feel a certain amount of "I told you so".

The lawsuit is against the industry trade group known as "GARM" (Global Alliance for Responsible Media).


That makes a lot more sense. Not doing business with someone is fine. An organised boycott is different (I do not know the applicable law, just saying its not the same thing).

blend27

3:07 am on Feb 8, 2025 (gmt 0)

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@tangor -- X is not going any where but up for the foreseeable future.--

Since the inauguration 'fiasco salutes'... hell lets call what it was - a Nazi Salutes, ok...

I literally had 7 clients contact me asking to remove any links to their Biz Profiles on X from their websites. All 7 accounts got canceled by owners. No Advertising on X. Some had profiles going back 12+years, some spent some real money considering SMB size of their companies. All clients mentioned above are in the Rust Belt, except one, In Canada.

The one in Canada actually asked if we can "Do Something" with the Sites Code to display a "NICE" message", along the lines of "F X" when any of the links are shared to their site from X and Twitter Bot comes to get OG data.

Ye, SMBs are saluting....

tangor

8:51 am on Feb 8, 2025 (gmt 0)

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This suggests one should avoid waving an arm in public as it might be misinterpreted by those with ideological myopia. That said, clients will be what they are, regardless of geographic location.

not2easy

12:26 pm on Feb 8, 2025 (gmt 0)

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Mod's note - This discussion is about how X is performing, not about how various politicians are performing.
Please stay on topic.
This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37