I wonder what the chipmakers think about that.

Goodbye Windows. It's been good knowing you.

I can't visualise that being traumatic for anyone.

When tested the only machines I couldn't get Windows 10 Preview working on [only for CPU reasons] were about 10 year old HP and Dell office PC's formerly running XP.

Microsoft is doing everything it can to get everyone on Windows 10, and this is just another step.

What are the alternatives for the average user: iOS or Android/Chrome. Linux is not an alternative for the average user. I don't doubt that specialists will be pushed harder away to Linux, and the average user will look at the other two alternatives, but, I think that those that resist are not the target markets for Microsoft. Corporate "enterprise" users are the important market for them, and that is another matter entirely. I suspect the upgrade cycle will take over and users will eventually get upgraded.

A typical snide arrogant attitude from Microsoft as usual. They release Windows 10 with hoards of bugs to meet an arbitrary release date, don't actually fix anything, release huge updates though likely won't update the install drives they sell and then try to damn the older reliable working versions of their own software. This is the kind of stuff that doesn't allow anyone's negative opinions of Microsoft relax to neutrality because they're so damn predictable.

John

I think that those that resist are not the target markets for Microsoft. Corporate "enterprise" users are the important market for them

In Australia, big corporate and government users generally have "custom software" which includes the OS. There are of course variations on the following theme, but it is a general guide.

IT firms may bid for a contract with the government department or corporation - that organisation may even use its own in house IT department. Whichever method is used they then invite firms like HP or Dell to bid on the supply of say 30,000 PC's suitable for ordinary office use.

The OS is customised to fit in with the requirements, and of course there is additionally other customised software to suit the businesses applications. I've seen many custom windows applications in government departments and businesses such as banks.

At the end of the day, none of them purchase machine or software. They lease them for say three years. In the lease deal all maintenance is included. A machine goes down, the IT department replace it ASAP. All that matters is that everything runs smoothly.

The stumbling block with a new, radically different operating system isn't costs or anything of the like...

It is primarily the resistance of staff members to adapt to a whole new system, one likely to be radically different to the one at home. Added to that is the difficulty of training, re-training staff on a massive scale.

I would imagine it would have to be done incrementally, and strategically.

An organisation where I do voluntary work uses ex-leased Dell machines with Windows 7 and Chrome. Most staff [all volunteers] can't even use that properly, yet have it on their home machines. Recently purchased Laptops were all specified to have the same set up.

I'm the sole Bozo who formerly used Windows 8/8.1 quite happily, and then went on to Windows 10.

Ditto for a son-in-law who is the head of a government department. All are Windows 7 etc with custom software at work, at home he will eventually go to Windows 10 - but NOT at work. Even a minor hiccup would prove catastrophic with time critical applications. His well founded philosophy is when most of his staff are comfortable with Windows 10 at home, as they will be eventually - then they will upgrade the workplace.

They get new leased machines every three years, but the average worker wouldn't notice any difference when they arrived for work on a Monday morning.

Watch out for Microsoft's haters as they always look for this type of topics to vent.

Got drivers? You have no problems.
this is totally overblown and that Win7/8.1 on Skylake will keep getting security patches as expected. most security updates don't require really "close to silicon" changes, so there's practically no chance that Win7/8.1 on Skylake will miss a security patch.

When tested the only machines I couldn't get Windows 10 Preview working on [only for CPU reasons] were about 10 year old HP and Dell office PC's formerly running XP.

No disrespect intended but this is EXACTLY what MS intends. Getting these low performance machines retired keeps them from labelling Windows 10 as 'slow' or a 'resource hog'

These were distinctions that Windows Vista had earned in the past. Any 32bit XP machines with under 2 gb of RAM that were upgraded to Vista ended up being very slow, even to boot to a desktop.

No disrespect intended but this is EXACTLY what MS intends. Getting these low performance machines retired keeps them from labelling Windows 10 as 'slow' or a 'resource hog'

None taken, the fact remains the biggest market for Microsoft is government and the corporate world - most of whom would now have "relatively" modern PC's quite capable of easily handling Windows 10. But they may still even be running XP.

For them, the cost of a new PC with Windows 10 is peanuts compared with the huge costs of retraining staff, and the disruption to productivity. As Windows 10 becomes mainstream at home, then it will become more prevalent in government and commerce.

I have yet to meet one person who wants to go to Windows 10 from their beloved Windows 7 or XP.

Talk to people who are neither enthusiasts, nor PC literate.

Small business will similarly be motivated by new software relevant to their business, and more particularly advances in new auxiliary hardware which now becomes necessary for the business.

The other market is home users. Windows lack of ongoing support isn't going to motivate a huge segment of them to change.

Browsers and perhaps other existing software not performing well in the modern internet will be the motivation. Family members passing along older machines will slowly remedy some of those instances. Many folks will always be 5-10 years behind the latest PC, and there is absolutely no sound financial reason for them to upgrade simply because HP, Dell and Mr Microsoft marketing wants them to.

Perhaps when Grand-Dad and Grandma see the need to update, one of the kids will give them a Windows 7 machine no longer required by them. Such folks will never go out and buy the latest Dell or HP with Windows 10. They'll likely get there on Win 10 when the local shop specialising in refurbished machines sells them an ex-leased machine with a Windows 10 licence. Those machines are sold here in Australia to qualified applicants for $A 250.00 - but they still have Windows 7 licenses.

Kids on the other hand will pester Mum and Dad for the latest machines capable of playing the latest games.

Students? Most students in Australia opt for Apple because that is what has been used in Universities and Colleges for decades.

I foresee M$ will have very little impact at all with this new policy. The fact is, 95% of the population will still remain serenely oblivious.

You see, the vast majority of people know about Windows, however they couldn't care less about meaningless versions. To them Windows 3.1 is just as good as Vista, XP, 98 SE, or any other number, and one computer is the same as another - it's just a computer - nothing else.

And in other news, the big computer manufacturers have conspired to get rid of floppy drives and parallel printer ports.

Silly news really unless you expect your old licensed Win 7 to run on a new desktop now using the same ARM processor the company tablets uses for Win 10. It could easily happen, esp. as the little processors that run phones and tablets are now competing with desktop machines and not only are those processors getting faster, they're getting so battery efficient that using them for a green energy efficient desktop makes sense.

I'm writing this using a cheap Win 10 tablet plugged into a 27" monitor and other than high speed gaming, it does what I need so why bother with the chips or desktops of old?

It's a new world paradigm and desktops aren't desktops anymore, dying breed.

It's a new world paradigm and desktops aren't desktops anymore, dying breed.

As a matter of interest how do you perform back-ups, to a standard portable hard drive or are you using SSD etc?

As a matter of interest how do you perform back-ups, to a standard portable hard drive or are you using SSD etc?

I back-up everything to a external SSD every night before turning off my machine keeping a legacy of 3. This has saved my life more than once.

This might prevent people who buy a PC then downgrade it to Windows 7 from going so on newer hardware. I bought a new laptop 3 months ago, and the first thing I did was ditch Windows 10 in favor of Windows 7. If I wanted 16 color flat displays with no styling I'd still be using Windows 2.

Microsoft herds biz users to Windows 10 by denying support for Win 7 and 8 on new CPUs
Yes, you can run Windows 7, but only on hardware fit for Windows 10
In a stunning example of consensus-building, Microsoft has somehow persuaded the big names of silicon that it would be better for all concerned if they quietly euthanize Windows 7 and 8.1.

[theregister.co.uk...]
This seems like a more reasonable explanation for what is going on.

This will be dead as a DODO within a few weeks, simply because it is fundamentally stupid.

Enterprise has not had the same enthusiasm for Win10 that MS expected. If MS follows through with this I have heard of some purchasing plans that now account for buying compatible hardware (read: older hardware) so that they can stick with their preferred OS. This may impact the chip makers rather than have the expected result of having Enterprise capitulate to this upgrade scheme.

Linux is not an alternative for the average user

How so? -- Have you seen Linux lately?

Installs in under an hour and updates in even less time than that -- GUI has improved dramatically in the past few years too -- Nothing is hidden and you can roll with it right out of the box.

Over the past 4 years, the only problem any client has had was trying to figure out just what flavour of Linux suited them the most.

Meet and greet with potential clients on the webdev end, and invariably my Linux is what gets talked about the most after the business with the site build is done- "That's not Windows - Is it a Mac?" .. "Nope, it's Linux -- here, check it out"

I've been loading more Linux builds lately for people just based on how it looks -- It's fast, stable, scalable and extremely "free" -- Did I mention that it was "free"? ...

Another development of late has been the the Android x86 for PC that's been floating around - Works like a dream --

The writing is on the wall for Microsoft me thinks -- The poor decisions that Microsoft makes today will be the pay days of tomorrow for all of us -

How so? -- Have you seen Linux lately?

None of us here are average users.

Many of my friends are average users. They plug in their shiny new PC and Windows starts to install. They would have no idea how to get Linux, even if they knew what it was. Many of them struggle with the setup and I often get calls for help to do the most basic things, such as receive their e-mail. They usually choose all the default options with the bundled software that comes with the machine. They are average users, imho.

However, I do agree that Microsoft has made some major mistakes in recent years. I doubt the writing is on the wall for the company, but I do believe it has made it tougher for itself by its lack of awareness of how the market has changed.

Each of these missives and updates, such as this one, coming out of Microsoft is somehow missing what consumers need and want, imho. It has been playing catch up and was caught out by the rise of Google, Android and Chrome, and the resurgence of Apple.

I'm writing this using a cheap Win 10 tablet plugged into a 27" monitor and other than high speed gaming, it does what I need so why bother with the chips or desktops of old?

I've been thinking about that Bill.

I don't own a Tablet, nor do I have any intention of buying one for the very simple reason is offers no benefit to me whatsoever but would cost me significantly more in running costs [WiFi].

I do have a Laptop which I can take to work - where I work as a volunteer, so I can carry on conversations like this one. I plug in a lead from the router for internet access. Any other little jobs I want to finish off go to/from a small external drive which I plug into the desktop when I get back home.

As for all my other work? I'm still working on my next desktop build for 2016 [budget permitting]. The first thing I always look at is the motherboard - how many SATA drives will it accommodate? What Chipset does it use? Then I go on from there...

Yes, I'm certainly not your average user. Yes, it is highly likely the average person in the street now finds a tablet caters for their every need. Then again that begs the question [perhaps confirming your contention]...

For everyday use, why would a tablet need an "all singing-all dancing" CPU etc and a monster OS such as Windows 10?

Inveterate gaming enthusiasts excepted, they are in a wholly different demanding class again.

[edited by: IanCP at 9:47 pm (utc) on Jan 19, 2016]

As a follow up, I believe Engine is quite correct in saying:

"It has been playing catch up and was caught out by the rise of Google, Android and Chrome, and the resurgence of Apple."

Yes, but to a great extent they have caught-up and have taken an innovative move in making Windows 10 multi-device compatible (computer, tablet & phone.) This keeps them in the game with Android & Apple.

Linux is not an alternative for the average user

I'd have to disagree with that. Of course most won't be able to install it on their own and will continue with whatever OS is on their machine. However, if someone sets it up for them, I've put it on the machines of the computer-clueless, and it has done fine. It really comes down to the initial setup and having someone who can answer basic questions for them. Once they get the hang of it the OS just runs with little need for maintenance if you setup automatic updates.

On the Enterprise side we recently saw AT&T go with Ubuntu [insights.ubuntu.com] over Windows. That's a huge install. It makes you wonder how much Microsoft's insistence on Win10 on modern hardware played into that decision.

I don't own a Tablet, nor do I have any intention of buying one for the very simple reason is offers no benefit to me whatsoever but would cost me significantly more in running costs [WiFi].

I do have a Laptop which I can take to work - where I work as a volunteer, so I can carry on conversations like this one. I plug in a lead from the router for internet access. Any other little jobs I want to finish off go to/from a small external drive which I plug into the desktop when I get back home.

Laptops are just tablets with keyboards. That's the way they make them these days. Just got my daughter one for her b'day (she was 31 on Jan 3rd) as a laptop replacement and she loves it. Damn thing was less than $200 and they even threw in a FREE printer! My all-in-one tablet clicks into the keyboard and it's a full USB hub with other connections, including 27" monitor. Then I can yank off the screen and walk away and play a game or read a book.

I could connect directly to an internet cable with a little USB adapter so there's nothing it can't do.

I also have a small 4 port hub so when I use it in laptop/desktop mode I can connect to everything I need.

I also have an OTR cable which allows me to use the tablet to connect to USB devices like it's a regular computer, it gives it a full size USB port, not the mini.

Basically it's all mix and match, the new tablet/laptops can do just about anything and if you pay MORE you get more ports built in, if you are cheap like me for $200-$300 you get a basic unit with fewer ports built in. That's the key part of a real keyboard like this one which has all the ports on it vs. those thin rubber keyboards which have none meaning those expensive Surface machines have to put all the stuff in the tablet/screen vs. the cheap units with the 'real' keyboards but all the heavy hardware is offset in the keyboard.

They're getting close to what I really want which is a way to dock the phone into a tablet so the computer is always the phone which just docks to be a tablet, laptop, etc. Could be easily done with my current all in one tablet/laptop, would just need a docking area on the back. Perhaps the phone will split in half where the screen and computer separate and you just slide the computer into the tablet is how they will do it. Which will be really cool because then every tablet and laptop will also have 3G/4G and the ability to take calls and do GPS without having to add all that crap to every peice of gear you own. That's what I really want which would give me an endless array of mix and match options.

As a matter of interest how do you perform back-ups, to a standard portable hard drive or are you using SSD etc?

I use cloud, 32GB and 64GB SSD and also have a 4TB backup unit.

FYI, I'm looking into dual booting my laptop with REMIX ANDROID which looks really cool. Someone I know claims he installed it on a 32GB SSD so it's not even actually on the computer itself. Will post about it if I do it and it's worthwhile.
[jide.com...]

My Winddows 10 Surface Pro i7 is built as a workstation in tablet form. This is faster than any computer I've ever used... so much for the "monster OS" theory.

However, if someone sets it up for them...

Well, that is the problem. Last evening I asked an "average user" about Linux, and they looked at me blankly. They would have no clue, and that's the problem. Until the average user can buy a Linux-configured machine when they go down the store to choose, I doubt that will change.
It's the same with their phone, tablet and computer. They really had no clue that their phone on Android was so different to Windows 10, and, importantly, they really didn't care. I have another elderly friend that said they want "a computer with which they are familiar," and did not specify an OS. Most people buy the hardware and rarely think of the OS or software.

I use a tablet computer for convenience, especially in the evenings while relaxing. I can hold it easily in one hand and browse the Net and review e-mails, etc. Importantly, the cat can sit on my lap at the same time. ;) The point being it is far more convenient.

Tablet computers really have revolutionised web browsing: Not only are they relatively cheap compared to a laptop computer, but for most people they just want to surf the net and deal with e-mails. The OS means little to them. Despite Intel's promotion, I'm not aware any of my friends have bought any computer specifying Intel processors. The OS and the processor is what it comes with, and that's it.

if you are cheap like me for $200-$300

If you remember Bill, I am - that was the best market price for the Lenovo in $A at the time back in March last year.

Cheap is my middle name. BTW what is your Tablet?

... we recently saw AT&T go with Ubuntu ... over Windows.

Linux is highly scalable, light on it's feet, and really not that hard to maintain -- I prefer the Mint for home use however. So far, with all of the installs I've done over the past year for these supposedly brain-dead end users, Mint has worked best and is the most Windows-like (according to those dyed-in-the-wool Windows users).

It really comes down to the initial setup and having someone who can answer basic questions for them

And therein lies the problem -- Support is what it is, and the purveyors of Linux haven't quite mastered the art of support in the tactical sense. The installation of the Linux OS requires many less steps than Windows for starters. One of the first questions I get from the end user is, "Is that all there is?" once the install process is completed. Seems that they've been trained or otherwise conditioned to expect difficulty with regard to OS installation, and I think we can blame Microsoft for that -- If it isn't difficult or confusing, then it must not be any good. Microsoft makes huge bucks off of their hard-wired difficulty as it might relate to their down stream support services.

Until the average user can buy a Linux-configured machine when they go down the store to choose ...

And this is yet another problem .. A few years ago Dell sold OEM Linux Machines - Price was huge -- i.e. $1,100 for a $500 machine (taking into consideration 3rd party hardware vendors). Too expensive for the average home computer user IMO -- The trouble here is that Linux is a higher quality OS. Getting the price down to more realistic levels might prove challenging.

When I look at the intended moves Microsoft is planning, a few things comes to mind -- SaaS is always in the back of my head -- Money is yet another thing lurking back there somewhere. I'm guessing that Microsoft is expecting to make another huge round of lay-offs in the near future as it pre-emptively cuts 7/8/8.1 out of the mix. They could save some huge bucks by not having to contend with any previous OS builds. Their Firmware writes are also somewhat curious as it might relate to possible future SaaS discussions. More and more we are seeing machines rolling out with borked BIOS' -- The machine is only good for Windows use. The only way around it is to go out and buy a compatible generic $500 MOBO to replace the Microsoft borked MOBO in your $200 laptop.

Google's got a handle on all of this, and here we are finding Microsoft with it's arm out and it's leg up being all secretive about how it screams to be Google -- And behind all of it, we find Linux. It's a food chain really -- and Linux is at the top of the heap - Google is somewhere in between, and Microsoft is left sucking the hind quarter. Google would be nothing without Linux -- I'm still at odds though with what Microsoft would be without whatever it is - It's like they've built themselves into a box over the years, and their shareholders, regardless of their guaranteed future loss in earnings, aren't about to let them out.

And then we'll top it off with a never ending and always present Android drama -- Android x86 for PC is gaining some steam these days -- Portable, as it can run via thumb-drive from any machine that has a processor, screen, and wifi internet (Mac/Linux/Windows) -- and that's not the whole of it -- It will dual-boot on any Windows or Linux machine -- or even better yet, run on it's own PC installation. I'm just willing to bet that Android is giving Microsoft some fairly serious fits of late, because it's proving to be the go-to-end-all for anything that's out there that connects to the net --