Funny, after 30 years of using nothing but Macs, I have decided that since almost all the programmes I am running on a daily basis are now PC applications (running through Parallels), my next computer will be two PC's rather than one Mac!

One will never be used on the internet other than to upload files to my website and the other will be used for all other applications.

The last iteration of the iMac I bought running on Mac OS 10.8.5 wouldn't run any of the software I used on a daily basis. It made the machine virtually useless to me. Why pay so much for a machine that has to use another company's software to operate the way I want it to operate? No more Macs for me!

That's amazing to hear of a 30-year Mac user switching over to PC!

I used to use a Macintosh Classic with System 7 which was great; I used to love Macs until they came out with OS X, after which point I couldn't tolerate them anymore.
Also, I couldn't run any of my old Macintosh programs on my new Macbook.
With an x86-compatible PC, I should theoretically be able to run anything written for the architecture since the 8086 came out in 1978, AND anything written today!

As far as the Google thing, I'm not that surprised, as the Google-Apple aesthetic is almost the same.

Chromebooks aren't real computers; they're Internet appliances (because of their lack of real operating system), so they are obviously out of the picture.

Hello ThomasW, welcome to the Forums. I guess it depends entirely on the programs one needs to work with. For me I started on Mac(Apple IIe) in 1984, got switched to IBM-DOS at work, then Windows showed up as a program, then a platform and everything work related went that way. In my opinion it has been devolving ever since, but that's me.

For years I could not get a Mac - no dealers locally and they wouldn't ship. Now there are dealers and they ship so I left Windows for an iMac as soon as I could. Although I installed Parallels so I could still run "my programs" (what I had been using for Windows). It soon seemed to me that there was no need to keep that up very long. I still have a few old things that I would need to fire up windows for but see no need to clutter up the Mac with that baggage. PC's are cheap enough to have one or two around.

I do understand that a lot of people view things differently. Personally I agree with your amazement at reverting to Windows. But if I were depending on Parallels or Fusion or Bootcamp to run programs every day I might agree that a PC makes sense. There is a learning curve and some folks are doing different things than I do. One size doesn't fit all.

One size doesn't fit all.

There is a valid point made above that the changes from Classic to OSX and PPC to Intel meant that people often felt they had to replace perfectly usable programs, and the additional expense could be considerable.

There are (still) free emulators available, though, for those who want everything on one machine.

I preferred to curate my own museum, as I have the space.

...

Mac (Apple IIe)

<begin Boring Old Poop mode>
The Apple // series weren't Macs.
</end BOPM>

Thanks for the warm welcome! :)

One size doesn't fit all.

Amen to that!

I guess it depends entirely on the programs one needs to work with.

This is most important of course, but the overall user experience is very important to me personally. (I am the user!)
In my opinion, the best UI ever created was the Windows Classic interface of Windows 95 to 2000. I use Windows XP and will continue to do so until I am absolutely unable to because my UI is almost indistinguishable from that of Windows 98, and I can run any program written for the PC architecture from 1978 to the present, which I am quite sure is the largest selection of any platform.
To me, the only UI which comes close is the Macintosh Classic one.

As far as the latest OSes go, I'm really not too fond of any of them, although Windows 8 is incredible(ly bad)!
I find it funny how at present, Apple is taking things from the smartphone and tablet over to the desktop computer to augment its functionality, whereas Microsoft is basically replacing the desktop UI with a smartphone one, effectively handicapping it with the same limitations. The absurdity of this I cannot comprehend.

I am just hoping that something comes of ReactOS, but I'm still waiting! ;)

I preferred to curate my own museum, as I have the space.

I would totally do this if I had the space, but I need one machine to run everything from the newest software to the oldest stuff I have. Hence why I spent so much time ensuring I could put an internal floppy disk drive in my new PC! (It's new to me — a ~2002 IBM PC [NetVista] gutted and replaced with 2013 hardware.)

The Apple // series weren't Macs.

True enough — just plain old Apples!
I always wondered why the Apple Computer Co. stopped after the Macintosh. I would totally buy a Gala, Gravenstein, or even a Granny Smith!

I would totally buy a Gala, Gravenstein, or even a Granny Smith!

<topic drift>
Ooh, there's a comic strip or at least a humorous list in there somewhere. A Granny Smith computer is one that suits the needs of crotchety old ladies, for example, while a Braeburn is optimized for, hm, Groundskeeper Willie?
</topic drift>

I don't like today's Mac nearly as much as I did the '90's version. (I'm talking, of course, about user interface, not about under-the-hood stuff.) But I still prefer it to all alternatives.

The Apple // series weren't Macs.

No, this is true, the Mac came later and went through its own evolution, eventually replacing the Apple line. I used it improperly.

I always wondered why the Apple Computer Co. stopped after the Macintosh.

They stopped using the word Computer in the company name with the success of the iPod and the beginning of the Apple iTunes Store. The change coincided with the introduction of a specific Design Group that worked only on the "Look" of the product line. Except for the flat mouse idea, I think they have done a great job of creating functional and clean designs.

I don't call my old pile of PCs a "curated" anything, but there must be close to a dozen from Win 98 to Vista laying around, mostly waiting to pull out the boards for some photo ideas and the old drives for transfers. One old Zenith PC that used Eproms. I also bought XP to run my legacy software, it was the last useful version they put out in my opinion. I don't use it online so I don't care that much about the support issues. I am still resisting "Mavericks", I don't care for all the OSX changes.

Trying to pretend to be on topic, I can understand why Google prefers to have their work done on Mac. Their own nebulous Chromebook OS is the weakest idea for business users I could imagine. Maybe it is just wrong, but I want my data to have a physical existence in my possession.

I am still resisting "Mavericks", I don't care for all the OSX changes.

Wish I'd resisted it. If I had it to do over again, I'd have stayed in 10.6.8 :(

Last year I went to back-to-back conferences: Pubcon and Badcamp.

The one is mostly corporate marketing types and is overwhelmingly Windows machines in the audience.

The other is an open source developers' conference and I would look around a room of 200 people, 50% with laptops open and try to spot a single machine other than mine without a glowing Apple icon on the lid.

Once Apple switched to a *nix architecture, it made it so easy for programmers to have the nice Apple interface and all the *nix tools they were used to. Since most programming these days is web-oriented (and certainly that's true at Google) and most of the web is run on *nix, it's been a natural migration.

I'm finding more and more that while it used to be that Macs had the great design tools and Windows had the Office and programming stuff, more and more new programming tools are not being rolled out to Windows at all.

So I expect that at Google the engineers were on *nix and the business people were on Windows and it was a bad mix. But put them both on Mac and they share docs easily and the biz people get their shiny Mac interface and the engineers boot up, open a terminal window and vim...

Well, I have to admit to being a dinosaur.

For my website, I need an easy to deal with drawing programme because I draw yacht layouts to scale. I have always used Appleworks and haven't found anything that even compares to it. I have tried at least 5 other programmes.

For many reasons, but mainly because I have an extensive library of canned answers and use Type it for me extensively, I still use Entourage. It has a great deal more flexibility than almost any other email programme out there and I use ALL of it's numerous assets. It also has an amazing storage capacity. I have over ten years of client email records stored in there.

When I got my new iMac, I couldn't run Entourage, I couldn't make Appleworks work. I couldn't make Photoshop work. I couldn't make Dreamweaver work. Basically, all the major programmes I used every single day of the week, no longer worked!

I was not interested in teaching myself an entirely new skill set or investing in a bunch of new programmes, just because my 2 year old iMac died on me and I had to replace it … but not before spending $800.00 trying to get my two year old machine fixed.

The fact was I needed to keep working, but I couldn't because absolutely nothing worked! Thankfully, a friend of mine is a wiz and he managed to get me up and running using parallels. But not until after I spent a little over two weeks of not being able to perform even the smallest task! Thanks to Apple for that! Oh, and the salesman who said I could call him for anything, never returned even one of my calls or emails.

So why did I spend so much money on a new iMac? Every single programme I use today is a PC app. There is virtually nothing I am interested in from Mac any more. I still have the first iPad and am happy with it, though I did update the software. I will buy another iPad one of these days … but PC's are it for me from now on, unless of course Apple goes back to supplying machines for the business person who also builds their own website.

Oh, and I never upgraded to Mavericks which came out weeks after I got my machine. Thank God for that! (I wish they'd stop sending me notices to update my machine.)

I would have reverted as well if I relied on things that weren't usable on your Mac. No glory in owning a tool that doesn't do what you need done.

A side note about your iMac failure - did you know they did a product recall for a hard drive failure issue for specific iMacs sold a few years back and paid all documented repair costs? If you have records of the equipment and the repairs they want to reimburse you. You can find details via the Apple Store. My hard drive died on one of these machines and I needed to get it working right away. Repairs would have meant air shipping it to them so I just went to another store and bought a hard drive, went to an auto parts place to buy suction cups for the glass removal and took my iMac apart and installed the new drive. Within a few hours I had reinstalled everything from backup and had no problem since then. About 6 months after all this I got an email from them about the hard drive issue and after a few emails explaining that I did my own repairs, they asked for copies of my receipts and sent me a check to cover all my expenses PLUS they paid me a good wage for my labor. Having gone through many similar issues on Windows machines where if there was any response from them, the only money mentioned was to be paid by me for fixing nearly new equipment that had warranty coverage, I cannot compare the difference in their handling of customer service issues. It would be like comparing apples and lemons.

_{Sorry. I couldn't resist.}

I have to admit to being a dinosaur.

Don't worry, people like dinosaurs.

It seems that your problem may have been Apple's dumping of Rosetta after Snow Leopard.

This prevented customers from running applications made for PPC that they already owned.

Anyone still using Snow Leopard should be wary of the free Mavericks upgrade.

Google employees, of course, don't have such problems (work software will be supplied).

...

My machine was a 2010 iMac with all the bells and whistles. It basically cooked itself. It ran so hot that you could almost burn your hand on the back of the machine. I thought it was going to go up in smoke, that's how hot it got.

One day, the screen went all weird on me. I got row upon row of little pink lines that ran straight up and down on a black background. That was it. Nothing worked.

Because I live in the British Virgin islands, there is no dealer here, just an Apple outlet on St. Thomas, in the US Virgin islands. So after my guy here said he couldn't do anything, I had to send it to them. I will refrain from stating what I think of them. This wasn't my first go 'round with them.

I used that machine for two years and they tried to tell me that it was normal for it to run hot. Well, true … but it never ran hot enough to burn your hand!

Rather than live in fear of burning the house down, I chose to buy another machine, figuring I just got a lemon. I had never had any trouble with any of my previous machines. I gave the machine to my guy here to use for parts.

I bought the new machine on the main Mac website … and had to go through the whole rigamarole of having it shipped to someone in the US and then they forwarded it on to me. They can't or won't sell outside of the continental U.S.A.

I probably still have the receipts somewhere around the house. Though it's possible I threw them out. It was a long drawn out process because even after I got my new computer, I still wanted the old one fixed. But alas, that wasn't in the cards.

I absolutely hate this new machine and nobody and nothing will convince me to buy another. I am thoroughly disgusted that they just blithely changed the operating system without telling people, oh by the way, if you are running this, this or this programme, they won't work anymore.

The salesman told me that Appleworks wouldn't work but that Sketch Book Pro was just as good. Sketch Book Pro isn't even close to being as good as Appleworks (for my purposes). Google Sketch up doesn't work for me either.

I bought three other drawing programmes and none of them work the way I need them to work. I even considered buying Autocad, but after trying Autocad Light, I decided against it.

For now, I am still running a PC version of Appleworks that some kind should did years ago. Once that is gone, I have no clue what I will do. I will probably have to hire somebody to draw my layouts and maps for me. Maybe I'll just retire or find a different line of work.

I sure wish we could magically go back to the mid 2000's. I would buy a slew of older Apples and keep them in a hermetically sealed room. Sigh.

OK, hurry there is a Vintage Apple Lisa Computer W/ Keyboard Profile Mouse + more Working! Macintosh with less than one hour left on ebay, currently at 743 USD. Just kidding although the auction is seriously listed there. Have you looked at getting what you need in the secondary market? We have an old G4 here (not for sale) kept for the same kind of reasons.

(Edited to add:)I just did a search there for "Apple G4" (if that would help) and found "72,813 results for Apple G4" so depending on your requirements you might find what you really want.

I bought the new machine on the main Mac website … and had to go through the whole rigamarole of having it shipped to someone in the US and then they forwarded it on to me. They can't or won't sell outside of the continental U.S.A.

- this was true up until recently. When I ordered an iPad, it had to ship to a friend in Florida who thanked me profusely for the gift _{(sure, very funny!)} before forwarding to me in PR. But I bought a new 13" Mac Book Pro with Retina in January and they did ship via USPS directly to my PO Box. Possibly that is why you hadn't heard from them on the recall, but it seems your model may have been involved in more than one recall, I did read about some overheating issues that they addressed the same way.

LOL … I had a Lisa and loved it!

They will ship to the U.S. Virgin Islands through their dealer there and also to Puerto Rico as both are "US". But they won't ship to the British Virgin Islands. I refuse to buy anything from their dealer in the USVI.

Back when I bought the new computer, I still had some money to throw around. Today I don't. I lost out on a new 2009, iMac (never used and still in the box) by minutes on ebay It sold for 700.00. I paid 3,800 for my 2010 model and pretty much the same for the one I have now. I could have screamed!

I am very leary of the second hand market simply because I don't have a reliable place nearby to get it fixed.

No, I didn't hear a thing (ever) about any recalls … even when I went hunting on the internet trying to find out what was wrong with my computer. And of course the salesman I spoke to on the online store never bothered to mention it either! :(

I have come to terms with the fact that it is time to change to PC. I am hoping this computer will last more than another year before it kicks the bucket too. By then, I hope to be in a better financial position too.

Understood, you have my sincere sympathies on the shipping and Mac 'Dealer' issues.

That is the worst situation Liane!
You have my sincere sympathies on the whole issue!

I don't think I would be able to withstand my entire 30-year computing platform collapsing on me like that!

I don't like today's Mac nearly as much as I did the '90's version. (I'm talking, of course, about user interface, not about under-the-hood stuff.) But I still prefer it to all alternatives.

The Macintosh was awfully great back then, as far as the marketing and the actual product went!
I still have about five or so of the posters from the "Think Different" campaign with Steve Jobs, Einstein, Amelia Earheart, and company, professionally framed. A part of my "in storage" computer museum.
I'm not too fond of OSX as I've said, but I think it's the best of the very latest OSes out there, especially UI-wise.

Once Apple switched to a *nix architecture, it made it so easy for programmers to have the nice Apple interface and all the *nix tools they were used to. Since most programming these days is web-oriented (and certainly that's true at Google) and most of the web is run on *nix, it's been a natural migration.

I never thought of it like this!
I guess that does make sense; I just didn't like OSX because it was just like they took NeXTSTEP, added the menu bar, and rebranded it "Mac". Regardless of the architecture, it seemed like too much of a leap for the UI to me. Kind of like when BlackBerry switched from their Java-based OS to the QNX platform. It just didn't feel like a BlackBerry anymore, and the little things that made a BlackBerry a BlackBerry just weren't moved over to the new OS! I'm sure that's partly due to the fact that it was released too early, and it might be a bit better now, but it still isn't as great in my opinion.

It ran so hot that you could almost burn your hand on the back of the machine. I thought it was going to go up in smoke, that's how hot it got.

My latest Macintosh, a 2007 Macbook Pro (wow, I forgot how long it's been!) was the most unreliable computer I had in my life. It did have the same unadvertised egg-frying capabilities though!

I really can't stand is how controlling Apple is with everything from hardware to software. The new Macbooks don't even have CD drives anymore! I can't believe it! Not even the Macbook Pro OR the Mac Pro have them! Everything is through the "App Store" or iTunes, of course.
Microsoft is trying to do the same thing in its long-time tradition of "copy everything Apple does", but they will not be so successful, and you really do have wayy more choice in the IBM PC world, hardware and software wise. I am glad that you have come to terms with the fact that you should switch to PC though, and especially that you've found Appleworks for PC!

Once that is gone, I have no clue what I will do.

What do you mean?!? You're saved, are you not? It's not just going to stop working by itself, unless something krazy happens!

I have also found some of the programs I used to use on System 7 for PC! There is just so much PC-compatible software out there for from the past ~35 years, and a lot it is free!

This is an interesting page [wilmut.webspace.virginmedia.com], but it suggests GIMP, which I doubt would be suitable for your use, and if you have AppleWorks working for you on PC, then you needn't worry.

I must say it is awfully refreshing to find people who are not devout members of the Church of TheLatestisAlwaystheBestNoExceptions!

What I meant by once it's gone, I don't know what I'll do is that when the time comes and I have to buy another new computer, I have no idea if I can get an operating system that will allow Appleworks to run on it. Who knows what the operating systems of the future will and will not permit to run?

The problem is being able to draw to scale. In Appleworks, I make little rulers using individual pixels and can draw scale drawings based on that. I haven't been able to make that work on any other programme. It's very frustrating.

I can't say I love Appleworks, but it is a very good programme. The PC version is not nearly as good as the original, but it works well enough for my application.

My latest Macintosh, a 2007 Macbook Pro (wow, I forgot how long it's been!) was the most unreliable computer I had in my life. It did have the same unadvertised egg-frying capabilities though!

I had a 2009 Macbook Pro laptop. Three weeks after my main computer died, the fan on that one went too. The guy here said he could fix it but that it would go again in a matter of weeks. I tried it anyway because otherwise I would have had no computer at all. My new computer had not yet been ordered as I was still trying to get it fixed. He was right, 3 weeks and 4 days later, the new fan died. That computer was three years old when it packed it in.

As for replacing Appleworks, (I use the drawing programme only) I have discovered there really isn't anything anything at all that even compares. Intaglio is poor at best, Sketch Book pro can't hold a candle to Appleworks, Google Sketch up, same thing. I bought a few others but none of them could do what Appleworks can do.

I don't know why they didn't replace Appleworks or update it. I guess it was too expensive. After all, when buying a cheap little throw away computer such as the very inexpensive 27" iMac … why would Apple want to spend any money at all on really good programmes that people love and use every day?

Arrrrrgghh!

I use the drawing programme only

Some possibly helpful information from Apple Support Communities:

[discussions.apple.com...]

EazyDraw might be what you want, and offers a free demo.

I doubt that many Google employees have this problem.

...

Good Find Samizdata! I don't use Appleworks, but there is a good set of links to useful info and it looks like what Liane wanted to know. Thanks for the tip.

I don't know what I'll do is that when the time comes and I have to buy another new computer, I have no idea if I can get an operating system that will allow Appleworks to run on it. Who knows what the operating systems of the future will and will not permit to run?

Ahhh, the faroff future. It's something scary I don't like to think about, however, I have at least a five-year plan for myself!

I run Windows XP exclusively, as I've said. As most know, Microsoft ended official support on April 8th. They are providing temporary support for like $200 per computer per month or something stupid like that, but support can be gotten from by using updates for POSReady 2009 which is a version of XP that has minimum support for ten years since its release, like all Microsoft products. Avast! antivirus has committed to supporting XP for the next two years at minimum. I am not too tooo worried about my Web browser, as I use K-Meleon, which I believe should be able to support XP for a very long time.

My hope is that if [when] Windows XP becomes no longer viable, ReactOS will be far enough along to be usable; hopefully they'll be at version 1.0 by then! For those unfamiliar, it's basically a reverse-engineered version of Windows NT.
I have looked at all possible options for the future — I was thinking of switching to Linux, but even if I could find or pay someone to create a UI that I like, I would have to find new programs for almost everything, as not a lot of Windows programs are Linux compatible. It will be a nightmare no matter what happens, but some kind of Windows NT version is my only viable option — I'm locked in!
Anyway, I think that XP (or perhaps Windows 7) might also be a good option for you; I just love it because it is the most widely compatible OS in existence, and is still the second most popular operating system in the world, so there is lots of demand for XP-related things.
I'm not overly fond of the default UI (though it has a bit of nostalgic value), but I love how customizable it is. I can easily change it to function just like Windows 95 (which is what I do) or even Mac OSX (which I have also done years ago). I have never ever come across a program too old or new to run on it, and I think it would be a relatively easy move for you since you say that most of your programs are PC ones anyhow!

EazyDraw might be what you want, and offers a free demo.

I was just going to mention that. It looks like it might be quite good, as they do advertise their scale drawing capabilities. It only runs on Mac though, so I guess you'd have to keep both systems still?

As an alternative, since the Macintosh version of Appleworks is better, you could try running it in an emulator in Windows if you haven't already.

I doubt that many Google employees have this problem.

...

You wouldn't be suggesting we might be drifting off topic, would you?!? :P

After all, when buying a cheap little throw away computer such as the very inexpensive 27" iMac … why would Apple want to spend any money at all on really good programmes that people love and use every day?

Arrrrrgghh!

It's awfully frustrating, whatever you do!
With Bill Gates gone from Microsoft, and both Steves gone from Apple now, the future of computers looks bleak to me. Hopefully some new visionaries will take up the posts!

Thank you Samizdata! I had not looked into Easy Draw … but may in the near future. However, the fact that it is made for Mac is another conundrum, as it means that I would once again be tied into Mac products.

I am going to talk to my computer guy here on Tortola to see if he thinks this would work. It certainly looks like the most promising of all the programmes I have looked at. I don't know how I missed this one!

Perhaps all is not lost after all. You've made my day! :)