Forum Moderators: martinibuster
For months (years) Group 1 had a fairly large stable membership. Recently, though, an increasing number of regulars is leaving this club and jumps over. Several of those who replied with fair earnings to the whiners just weeks ago, now seem to be in the same boat (At...c, cou...m). They can no more give ideas, tips, reasoning, lessons.
Well, this is nothing more than my observation in this losing-my-faith-in-adsense state.
Right now, they are not.
I've always thought, for example, that the "let everyone in" and then try to police after, while an effective short term approach, couldn't work long term. Junk ads have always been a problem. Junk sites have always been a problem.
If I post more about problems now, it's simply because the chickens have come home and don't seem to want to leave, and the worst part is it's google's chickens, and well, they make a heap of a mess.
When google helps me meet my business goals, I'm happy, and when it doesn't I'm not.Right now, they are not.
while an effective short term approach [...] have always been the problem
If I post more about problems now, it's simply because the chickens have come home and don't seem to want to leave, and the worst part is it's google's chickens, and well, they make a heap of a mess.
Oh well, here's my take.
Overall, AdSense has been a great ride, and for the most part still is!
There are nagging issues that annoy me, but not enough to dump AdSense, yet.
As far as posting here goes .... oh my, look at the time! Gotta fly!
That said, when I feel they're doing something wrong, I'm gonna let 'em know. Generally at the top of my (virtual) voice.
As for your questions, 3 lines from the same song come to mind:
- Sunday driver never took a test
- There's a heap big trouble in the land of plenty
- You can even catch a bullet from the peace keeping force
Off to find out where Ken went.
Even if the phenomenon that you describe were real, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. After all, in a forum where most members use aliases, there's no way to know if a happy or unhappy camper is publishing a latter-day version of the Encyclopedia Britannica or a made-for-AdSense junk site. (Remember when, a few years ago, "pure play affiliates" were furious because thin-affiliate pages were being targeted for purging by Google Search? Google's purging of thin affiliates may have been bad news for site owners, but it was a positive step in the evolution of Google Search.)
suggested some "Conversion rating score" for each sites in the suggestions thread for ASA, which would inform us that we are smart priced because our site doesn't perform. If revenue drops but our site still performs (and we can't find other reasons like bad targeting), we can then blame it on economical conditions.
I saw that suggestion re: the conversions, but I'm convinced that actual conversions, or some rating based on actual conversions won't be helpful, because the algorithm simply can't be based on actuals anyway. It's got to work like actuarial tables in insurance.
I suppose they could share a smartpricing rank, though, which would be far more important.
..can't imagine it happening since knowing that makes it too easy to learn how to game the system.
...oops, sorry, a bit off the topic.
From looking at my figures I can only conclude that Google is a cynical company that uses a company mission that talks about doing no evil while being very evil on several aspects at the same time. (I also happen to know a couple of Googlers in person, and I can say that they are probably the most arrogant people I have met, ever.) The figures from Adsense just do not make sense, and I give Adsense until mid-January to recover. If the typical January boost will come out as expected (i.e. weak), and if Google posts record earnings at the same time, then I will pull the ads. There is no point in staying with a program that laughs at you.
Then I will move over to the third group ("left Adsense, does not care").
Overall, AdSense has been a great ride, and for the most part still is!
We're well enough acquainted from other forums let alone the fact we're both idjut Australians. OK you might differ in opinion.
What you say is 1000% correct. If AdSense dropped off the face of the planet tomorrow the sum total of my earnings would take Amazon and Commission Junction about a highly improbable 800 years to match.
No, it's not nickels and dimes I'm talking about and both Amazon and CJ have and continue to be nice little handy earners.
Err, ever go to bed at night feeling a bit guilty about these little "taxi meters" you've got going in the background while you sleep?
I used to feel like that before AdSense was invented!
My wife actually thinks I should go into some sort of rehab!
No program or system is going to be profitable for everybody. I'm always surprised during the holidays how some are doing great business while my sites are starving from lack of visitors. And also when the reverse occurs.
Well, this is nothing more than my observation in this losing-my-faith-in-adsense state.
Is there anything better?
I know no other ad system, what would bring only 1/2 of AdSense revenues.
Sure, my dreams are over as I thought 2005 to have soon 5000, 6000 a month.
But GM -41%, Ford -31%, Chrysler -30%
So I can be happy with -10%
True, over the years AdSense has turned into an addictive bipolar program , it manifests itself in the form of Manic Depression. After too many unexplainable episodes, a publisher is just too mentally exhausted to discuss AdSense.
From looking at my figures I can only conclude that Google is a cynical company that uses a company mission that talks about doing no evil while being very evil on several aspects at the same time. (I also happen to know a couple of Googlers in person, and I can say that they are probably the most arrogant people I have met, ever.) The figures from Adsense just do not make sense, and I give Adsense until mid-January to recover. If the typical January boost will come out as expected (i.e. weak), and if Google posts record earnings at the same time, then I will pull the ads. There is no point in staying with a program that laughs at you.
To me, this characterizes the REAL difference between people, generally. As I said earlier, I look at google within a business context. It is of no interest to me to characterize google as arrogant, cynical or evil, which are essentially useless ad hominem attacks.
It's interesting that if I called someone on this board arrogant and cynical, I'd almost certainly be banned, so we "recognize" this kind of behavior isn't appropriate. If I wrote the comments quoted above and targeted them to let's say women, or an ethnic group, not only would I be banned, but I'd be soundly thrashed (and I would deserve it. We DO know what's appropriate, right? Or do we?
I see people on this board falling into one of two groups.
1. People who characterize google with glib statements like arrogant, evil, good, etc (it works both ways), and when they don't get what they want, ratchet up their verbal attacks. I suspect those people do the same things in their lives outside google and outside this board. These are not people I'd ever want to meet, and neither would I want to have anything to do with them in business
2. People who recognize that google is simply a company, like any other company, who's value needs to be assessed on a business basis. Either it earns money or it doesn't. Either you want to work with google or you don't. Either you have options or you don't. These folks, I'd love to meet, and love to work with. It's clear almost immediately who is who.
There's no crying in baseball, and there shouldn't be any crying in business.
The kind of characterization of any company, akin to saying company x sucks, or company x is evil, or even company x is great strikes me as being the domain ideal for children.
Unfortunately, it's predominant.
Chuckle.
I do well by Google, and Google does well by me. That's not to say there aren't glitches.
The reason the anthropomorphizing and complaints are predominant, coachm, is the medium on which we participate. Seems like people mostly come here to bitch; ever notice how we get a spate of new users whenever some new change in AdSense or AdWords goes into effect? When everything is going well, most people are too busy or too happy to have to come here and talk about it.
I do well by Google, and Google does well by me. That's not to say there aren't glitches.The reason the anthropomorphizing and complaints are predominant, coachm, is the medium on which we participate. Seems like people mostly come here to bitch; ever notice how we get a spate of new users whenever some new change in AdSense or AdWords goes into effect? When everything is going well, most people are too busy or too happy to have to come here and talk about it.
Google has done well by me, and now not so well, but then again well, and not. It bugged me when google waited so long to refund me over 7k. However, I was pleased with how they communicated with me (more than pleased).
It goes up, it goes down. They do some things well, they do other things in horrible ways. None of that causes me to treat them like an estranged marriage partner, or someone I've fallen madly in love with.
To me, that's not how you run a successful business. You don't relate to customers, suppliers, etc, as evil, or the best thing since bread, unless you're completely lost about business, which I happen to believe, the HUGE majority of adsense publishers are. Lost in business.
I agree about the people not doing well complaining. I'm currently very disappointed in our google results, but I see NO point in calling google names, which is what people do here. Evil? Arrogant? Whatever. These kinds of characterizations say nothing about google and everything about the person making them.
Some of us gave up on the name-calling when we grew up.
PS. As for the google statement "do no evil", it would seem obvious to me what this is used for within its business context but perhaps you need to understand business to "get it". For those interested pick up a book on strategic planning or something similar that looks at issues like mission, role, etc. Better still, buy and read four or five.
[edited by: martinibuster at 5:38 pm (utc) on Dec. 3, 2008]
[edit reason] Fixed formatting. [/edit]
...divided frequent posters into two groups.
Personally I wish this forum could get back to more of the useful threads of the past - people discussing colors and layouts and other techniques they have tested. It seems the discontent with AdSense has either drown those out or they don't get much attention when started.
Is there anything better?I know no other ad system, what would bring only 1/2 of AdSense revenues.
I use a niche PPC program that outperforms AdSense on a site I have that fits the niche. The success seems to be they realize a publisher knows more about the ads that will be of interest to the visitors and they give the publisher the tools necessary to show those ads to the visitors.
Hopefully more such programs will be developed as people study Google's strengths and weaknesses.
FarmBoy
Now things have tightened up in many ways and of course some will be disillusioned. Like me. I was very upbeat and a Google defender in the beginning. But their behavior just turned me around.
It was easier to make money in the old days. The whole system was looser and there were a lot of publishers that needed to be won over.
Evolution happens, and easy money seldom lasts. It's inevitable that two groups of publishers (and I use the word "publisher" loosely, in the AdSense meaning of the term) should prosper while others fall by the wayside:
- Those who deliver valuable traffic to advertisers, and...
- Those who are nimble enough (and who have the technical and business expertise) to continue gaming the system as the network evolves.
I'm sure there are many here who long for the good old days when clicks were billed to advertisers at full retail (whether or not the clicks were worth anything) and AdSense was so new that clueless users clicked on ads out of confusion or curiosity. But those days are gone, and for the sake of the network's longevity and growth, that's just as well.
- Those who deliver valuable traffic to advertisers, and...- Those who are nimble enough (and who have the technical and business expertise) to continue gaming the system as the network evolves.
I think if we should have learned anything in the past year, it's that the "market" a) isn't free, and b) it doesn't even usually operate to weed out low quality.
Free market weeding out assumes several things that are not true. That customers are informed, and operate rationally at all times, which is clearly not the case, and that sellers operate rationally and effectively at all times, documenting and evaluating their successes and failures.
None of this holds true. It particularly holds true when google interferes with the market which it does (for its own benefit, as would any business), using black box techniques such as smart pricing, quality site factors, or anything that affects the display of ads, what people are paid, etc.
Google is the only one that can bring cheer to us.
I love the installation ease of the program, me not having to have a dedicated advertising sales team and, of course, the fact that the cheque always comes through on time.
I hate the not knowing why I get slammed sometimes and sit here wondering if it is something I've done or another glitch with the Stupid Pricing algo.
This week is a perfect example, Monday was fine with a normal EPC, Tuesday my EPC dropped 16.78% and then Wednesday a further 9.22% making a total drop so far for the week of 24.45%.
From what I can see all the advertisers are the same therefore why such a huge variation in EPC? I'm pretty sure these advertisers are not changing their bids on a daily basis therefore I have to assume it has to be Stupid Pricing.
The fact that I'm also earning 33% of a couple of years ago doesn't endear me to them either and that is all down to CTR levels but I am not fully blaming Google for this, I feel sure much of it is ad blindness now with so many sites carrying AdSense.
I've wondered about trying netmeg's idea of a garish background ad colour to see if that made any difference however I have to kick my sensible head into gear and remind myself that I do have the premier trade sites in my industry and that whilst Joe Public may be inspired to click the prime reason for my sites is to sell my products in container load quantities.
I suppose if I actually had to business travel as much as I used to I probably wouldn't concern myself so much with how AdSense is performing so long as it kept ticking up earnings, the problem with working from the same base day after day is that sometimes I may believe I can micro manage the program and this probably leads to much of the frustration.
What I do know is that prior to AdSense monetising sites in my industry was not nearly impossible, it was totally impossible, and if someone had said to me nearly 5 years ago that by inserting some code and leaving it that I would get paid in excess of USD 100,000.00 I would never have believed them.
Love/hate...yep, would love more earnings, hate it when it falls!
I think if we should have learned anything in the past year, it's that the "market" a) isn't free, and b) it doesn't even usually operate to weed out low quality.
In keeping with this forum's reliance on anecdotal evidence, I'll just say that the market seems to be working well on my site. I see very few AdSense ads that I'd call "low-quality," and most (not all) ads are either contextually targeted or at least targeted to my site's theme. (In a spot check of about 15 pages just now, I did find a "fight stomach fat" at the bottom of one five-ad wide skyscraper, but that was a fluke--at least in the geotargeted region where I live.)
If there are enough advertisers who are willing to bid significant amounts for contextually-targeted ads on your page's topic, you probably won't see many low-quality ads. Unfortunately, some topics and types of sites work better with CPC ads than others do. (I routinely see "sponsored links" for mesothelioma lawyers on one of America's top newspaper sites, which just goes to show that news sites may be better-suited to display ads than to text ads.)
AdSense is like a wonderful lover, who gives you great time [webmasterworld.com]
ASA
