BillyS: Well then here is my vote - page views up, revenue up.

K, let me elaborate. Can you look at your stats and say were you would've been has there not been increas in pageviews? Let's compare apples to apples.

I am just curious, if there's one more person here who can extrapote their stats and say, that since late November - assuming they would've gotten the same pageviews - they've had a 50% jump in eCPM or earnings.

Insidentally, our pageviews are also up last couple of days, and so are both eCPM and earnings

have you considered the possibility that Google is trying to send a message to such publishers?

Out of curiosity, what message do you think that could be?

the message that the newly invented "landing page quality algorithm" for publishers has decided that their sites are crap.

Um..., because you're talking about two or more parties planning to commit an illegal or evil act - and that's the definition of conspiracy.

And I'll say it again - squeezing margins that are not preset is NOT A CRIME NOR IS IT A CONSPIRACY! It's just business. Please...someone...anyone show me how this is a crime or a conspiracy.

JAG

when you run your own show ..charging what the market can bear is normal ..not a conspiracy ..

google just manage by their obfuscation and their "do no evil" whilst doing some very close to the edge things with others copyrights and some deals with some very non sanctified folks "newscorp" to make people think that normal business ..is somehow the conspiracy ..
BTW.. JAG ..precisely ..adsense has always been since it's inception a very good way to identify potential direct adverstisers ..but someone who works for someone else doesnt want the responsibility or the work of dealing direct with customers ..so can only see one potential of adsense ..

edited for clarity

[edited by: Leosghost at 1:18 am (utc) on Jan. 26, 2007]

charging what the market can bear is normal ..not a conspiracy

Exactly! If Google wants to give less, or more, it is their call. Have at it. Go for it. Best of luck. Perfectly within their rights. Perhaps even obligated to their shareholders to do so. Absolutely legal. Not a conspiracy. And so on...

I'm wondering if the push back that this *could be happening* is driven by folks not wanting to rock the boat in general or believe Google is a charity that will keep on giving and not the real business that it is?

so can only see one potential of adsense

Indeed. Finding all the exploits (legal ones of course) takes an open and inquisitive mind. Mix in a little good old fashioned hard work like ebound did and the rewards can be substantial :-)

JAG

I'm wondering if the push back that this *could be happening* is driven by folks not wanting to rock the boat in general

1) I run a business. What "could be happening" to other people is useless to me.
2) There's no data one way or the other worth a darn. All we have is speculation. What "could be happening" is useless to me and my business.
3) The number of people who can't distinguish between data and conclusions drawn from data, and inferences (often false) is such that most of these discussions are full of logical and cognitive errors.

..and did you catch mfishy's post :)?

All we have is speculation.

That's the wonderful thing about this place that Brett has graciously provided for us all. Not everything applies to everyone and a healthy dose of speculation keeps the brain engaged.

If we were to only deal in facts it would be a lonely place here. In fact this thread would have simply ended with the second post being "you have no facts and anyone who answers this thread proves nothing as the sampling is scientifically flawed and insignificant not to mention worthless to me".

I choose to think there is much more value here when everyone expresses their views and thoughts. Substantiated with facts or not. If I have no interest I simply stop reading that thread. It's a sad day when we have folks who have been here a long time express disgust at "useless posts" and "not another one of those threads again" and all the derogatory statements that I see to describe threads labeled as less than interesting to them. All of us should be ashamed if we are guilty of it.

JAG

so why always push the google is only doing good line ..if it's all speculative ..

Ah. I've repeatedly commented on "stupid (or unexplainable) google tricks". What I do NOT do is

1) Publicly attack those I am in business with (some people in business DO have a sense of right and wrong, and what constitutes good (and profitable) business practices.
2) Make unsubstantiated public comments about how the people I am in business with are liars.

As in your earlier post:

google just manage by their obfuscation

If it makes you happy to make these accusations, without substantiation, then go for it. But, to repeat, I'm in business, and this crap is useless to me as a business owner.

It's old, and it's not even entertaining any more. And it's pretty much driven out more intelligent kinds of threads, which are hijacked anyway.

A LOT of really excellent WebmasterWorld active posters have given up even bothering.

google just manage by their obfuscation and their "do no evil" whilst doing some very close to the edge things with others copyrights and some deals with some very non sanctified folks "newscorp" to make people think that normal business ..is somehow the conspiracy ..

was an entire sentence ..and thus has a very different meaning from that which you attempted to attribute to it by your selective quoting of just the first six words ..

( writing mainly ezine articles and briefcase books and self proclaimed "guru" stuff on every subject under the sun is affecting your reading ability there ;-)

your business seems so dependant on adsense that one wonders if the book sales ( despite your often proclaimed expertise as an adwords buyer ..presumably to push them ) are no longer acheiving your performance objective ..like I said ..many people just dont seem to realise that they are MFA's ..

true ..many posters no longer comment ..possibly that has to do with yourself pushing yourself ( as in off fora life )as the expert on all aspects of adwords and adsense , copyright , customer relations , management , getting along ;-))..and if we had a pig rearing section doubtless you'd be in there too telling us all how you knew better ..and writing a keyword spammy pocket sized book too ..

as JAG says ..it's the diversity of opinions here that we come for ..and the insights gained from discussion even if we disagree with each other from time to time ..I've had some doozies with Big Dave ..but I watch for his posts because he makes sense mostly ..and can back it up ..and doesnt always post just to say someone else is wrong ..frequently the guy posts to help out on a browser issue or something unrelated to adsense or adwords ..posting just to help out as opposed to look "all knowing" is cool ..try it sometime ..it's what makes fora :)

any competant psychologist would know that ..
self proclaimed gurus cramp initiative and imagination in any groups thinking ..

( cant wait for you to come over to graphics and tell us that you have the answer to enhancing our performance with flash and photoshop )

Ah. I've repeatedly commented on "stupid (or unexplainable) google tricks"

only to tell anyone and everyone specially the newbies that their interpretation of whatever is being discussed is crap ..and to infer that they should just pull up a chair and sign on for the seminar ..but your proof of what you propound is never any better than theirs ..and condescension sure as hell doesnt encourage lurkers .

But, to repeat, I'm in business, and this crap is useless to me as a business owner.

So I repeat why always post the same line ..the same interpretation? things change google change their algo ..and their rules ..and their corporate policy adjusts ..if it didn't they'd die ..so why so hostile to that being recognised and discussed ..even their own PR people dont always use auto denial mode!

..some of us are saying that if Google are operating differentials ..then thats normal business practice ..good business for them ..and that given the imperatives of business we'd probably do the same ( maybe with a little less smoke and mirrors attached to the actions is all ) ..but we arent saying that if they are doing any differential pricing or payouts that it's wrong ..or illegal ..

your total refusal to accept that possibility ( inspite of the fact that you accept that any discussion is just speculation ) ..and your "confused", as mfishy put it reasoning , ( there is a difference between writing about boards and actually serving on them :) whilst "defending" google ..or constantly trying to paint them luminous white ( inspite of saying you dont care about what anyone else thinks ) ..leads one ..or more than one ..to think it's just shilling ( and I cant see that G need it ..they have PR people all over these fora and elsewhere ..Adam does a pretty good job of telling us the company line ) ..or you are afraid that if you dont they'll stop the checks? ..

Or are you just softening us naive ones up for a pitch about a guru book on how to perform in googles adwords adsense programs ..

Another thing any competant psy would tell you ..the occasional signs of possession of a sense of humour would also help when posting ..makes us all feel less like you were trying to talk down to everyone ..

like JAG said ..if we didnt discuss ..than any thread could be just 2 posts long ..and we could all just go consume the Gteams blog ..

edited for clarity

[edited by: Leosghost at 4:49 am (utc) on Jan. 26, 2007]

so why always push the google is only doing good line

Uh, how much of rbacal's stuff have you read, because I've seen lots of threads where there was pretty good anti-google stance when it was called for. But that was the key, there was a logical reason to suggest that something was not quite right.