So maybe you should be following the well tried and tested advice in this forum to raise the cost of clicks?

>>> unless you're talking about a premium publisher that can deliver enough impressions to justify the advertiser's time in reviewing not only potential site-targeted CPM publishers, but also specific pages or sections within those publishers' sites.<<<

if google won't do it, somebody else will... from mediapost today: "RIGHT MEDIA, WHICH OPERATES THE Right Media Exchange ad marketplace, has launched a white-label technology platform for large publishers, dubbed Publisher Media Exchange, allowing them to create their own ad auctions for undersold inventory. The technology's users, which include Fox Interactive Media, Tickle, LookSmart, and Six Apart, can set up auctions for their advertisers to bid on the ad space on individual pages."

Yep, it's like I said: premium or large publishers.

except that the google ad network already caters to small publishers, with it's section/site targeting capability... and fyi, efv, no advertiser screens every single publisher page on a forum before placing an ad, lol.

right media is apparently doing exactly what i suggested in this thread... bidding wars for cpm-only vs. cpm-only pages, potentially down to the individual page level, as defined by the publisher.

except that the google ad network already caters to small publishers, with it's section/site targeting capability...

That isn't catering to publishers; it's catering to advertisers (a.k.a. Google's customers).

Again, if you think advertisers would like to have publishers dictate where site-targeted CPM ads can appear, why don't you float the idea on the AdWords forum asd see what kind of reaction you get?

I'll wrap up my end of this discussion with one more suggestion:

Publishers who aren't happy with their eCPMs, or with their CPMs from site-targeted ads, shouldn't be distracted by the fantasy that limiting where CPM ads appear will somehow boost their revenues. Instead, they should be trying to learn why their topics, content, and/or audiences are of limited value (and of limited interest) to advertisers. The bottom-line reality is that AdSense revenues are determined by what advertisers and Google think clicks and impressions are worth--not by what publishers think they should earn.

>>>That isn't catering to publishers; it's catering to advertisers (a.k.a. Google's customers).<<<

no, it gives publishers choices, and it has the potential to improve the earnings of pages that don't work for contextual advertising.

the right media exchange is run by ad pros who know the business, and what they did shows that there is a demand for cpm-only ad auctions, on pages that are selected by the publishers.

so why should i bother "floating" a proven concept to the adwords crowd, when the industry has already made it a reality?

>>>Publishers who aren't happy with their eCPMs, or with their CPMs from site-targeted ads, shouldn't be distracted by the fantasy that limiting where CPM ads appear will somehow boost their revenues.<<<

wrong again... i never suggested limiting where cpm ads appear, it's about limiting where cpc ads appear... click fraud, mfa'ers, and whored-out adwords pricing has chased advertisers away from the content side in droves... this is about giving both them and us better choices.

wrong again... i never suggested limiting where cpm ads appear, it's about limiting where cpc ads appear

Gee, I could have sworn that you said:

i'd feel better about site-targeted ads if google gave me control over what pages they show up on... but that'll probably never happen.

and:

i said control over what pages site-targeted cpm ads show up on, NOT cpc ads.

Case closed. :-)

i can see how that could be confusing, lol... especially when it's quoted out of context :-)

the object is for publishers to promote cpm useage with advertisers, by telling them where the cpc-free zones are... you don't have to limit where cpm ads show up to do that.

So by picking over every single word, we have managed to lose both the actual purpose of the thread, and the whole purpose of what the thread morphed into without a single point being proved!

FWIW Danimal is correct - limiting where cpm ads show is pretty much a necessity thanks to Google's seriously flawed technology. It's been with us now for several years, and if anything the target bot has got WORSE - not better.

Given the fact there is well paid advertising available, why on earth do they actually WANT to show cpm ads that pay a lot less, so Google earn a lot less out of it? Truth is that Google probably never intended that to happen, and they DO want to show the best paying ads. The problem is that the technology isn't capable of doing that. It was OK to start with, but it just isn't capable of doing that any more (if it ever truthfully was) and therefore we HAVE to block the low payers that Google's technology can't. Generally speaking, the majority of CPM ads come into that category. Therefore as webmasters we should be able to limit where they appear.

Daminal is also correct in that there is an auction based market out there for cpm ads whereby the webmaster chooses where to show them. As I'm not showing Google ads currently, I am investigating the option mentioned. What I'd really like to do is to have one block of CPC and one cpm banner on what was my best earning page. The site is number 3 on Google search for my main keywords, and gets good traffic. Does that suggest that the page is "Worthless" to advertisers? I think not. I think it speaks volumes that given a pool of relevant advertisers, Google cannot place ads that are well targetted, and pay reasonably well on a top three site in Google's own search index. I guess that the "Technology" thinks that top rated sites with good traffic are as much use to them as MFA's.

I've been saying for some time that Google should offer webmasters the choice of where we show cpm or cpc ads. It's NOT because of the fact that the pages are worthless for advertisers - it's BECAUSE Google's technology isn't capable of interpreting the page content, earnings history and placing ads accordingly. Webmasters have that knowledge, and should make the decision (or be allowed a choice).

The truth is that different ads work better for different advertisers, as do different pages on a website work better for certain types of advertising. A market based auction would determine the worth of pages. That's what adsense is SUPPOSED to be, but the technology doesn't deliver this.

It's absolutely wrong to suggest that because a webmaster wants to show cpm ads on certain pages that they are worthless to advertisers. There isn't any proof of that. Besides, if it was true, then Google's "Wonderful technology" would deal with it, wouldn't it? Or is there a tacit admission that the much aplauded technology doesn't actually deliver in the way Google keep saying it does?

i feel sorry for people who are trying to monitize forums with adsense cpc, because the targeting is so bad... and when advertisers can target any keyword they want, you'll never have optimal targeting.

efv, here is the adwords section targeting url:
[adwords.google.com...]

it's the advertiser who limits where the cpm ads appear, not the publisher... i'm trying to work within the system, by letting the publisher tell the advertiser where to target the cpm ads, without bidding interference from the off-target cpc ads.

if the advertisers can't get a handle on that, then i guess that publishers will have to limit where they can place their cpm ads.

The problem comes when an advertiser for cpm is unrelated to your website. Your earnings will go down.

Hi theRealairness,

You state this as a fact, but it can't quite always be true as you state it.

For example, if I advertise flat out with CPM at a rate of $1m/mil on your site then you make a LOT of money (providing I pay up) whatever the topic of my ads.

So I missed something. Could you explain it again?

Rgds

Damon

Good catch DamonHD. I never thought of that. However, this scheme may only benefitial for website with lots of traffic. My website will take long time to get a thousand impressions. So, I have to wait a long time to get the payment. They should break it down let say every 10 impressions, or so.

They should break it down let say every 10 impressions, or so.

you are kidding, right? many of us get 10 impressions per second.

So, I have to wait a long time to get the payment. They should break it down let say every 10 impressions, or so.

CPM (cost per thousand) is just a standard unit of measurement. If you get an ad with a net CPM of $2.00 and you deliver 100 impressions, Google will credit 20 cents to your account.

It's no different from owning a fruit stand and selling grapes for $2 per pound. If someone buys a quarter of a pound of grapes, you'll be paid 50 cents.

Isn't their a rule by the FTC which says advertisements must be labeled "paid ads" if they too closely resemble content?

I think Google wants users to realize they are clicking on ad, although I don't see these words on premium sites.