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Political-related searches now punishing political service vendors

SERPS now packed with irrelevant gov listings

         

justanobserver

2:11 am on Feb 13, 2023 (gmt 0)



Google is currently manipulating political-search related results for political-based searches. Website services that cater to political campaigns are being pushed way down the SERPS.

This is the third time since August 2022 that this has happened. Right out of the blue, the regular results get replaced by city, state, and government pages.

It's happened again on 2/7/22.

Do a search for "political campaign signs" on Google.

You would normally expect to see the search results return a list of sign printers. And it WAS that way - until Feb 7th-8th. NOW when you do that search, you see the usual paid ads for sign printers. But the Google natural search results are mostly a hodgepodge of government sites from around the country. The usual vendors have been pushed down to page 2 and beyond.

If you search for "running for mayor" or "how to run for mayor" or other positions, you'll see mostly city government links, many not even near you.

Relevancy, anyone?

If you don't normally follow these keyword phrases, you would not notice this. However, normally these searches are answered by sites that provide general information on what you need to run for a particular office. If you add a location to the query, then naturally you'd get localized results.

Normally this suppression goes on for 4-6 weeks, and then the SERPs return to the way they were. The first time this happened was right after the 2020 elections. On November 11th, we dropped so hard we couldn't even rank for our name. It took almost three months to recover 2021 was pretty uneventful. Then since August, 2022, it's been a roller coaster - and NOT timed with any known algo changes.

Why is Google doing this? It is there something in the timing? Are they trying to look non-biased somehow by just providing bland government results?

I don't know, but I haven't seen anyone else talk about this. I know I'm not the only business being hurt by these arbitrary shifts.

Anyone else seeing these odd results?

PS: This whole ranking fiasco only seems to be effecting US traffic, of course.

Beachboy

3:31 am on Feb 13, 2023 (gmt 0)

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Maybe they laid off the wrong people.

tangor

7:40 am on Feb 13, 2023 (gmt 0)

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Back in the day during run ups to elections folks called it the "crazy season".

This is probably g's version of the same. Sigh.

christianz

12:26 pm on Feb 13, 2023 (gmt 0)

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Just another example of how EAT is destroying the Web.

justanobserver

2:33 pm on Feb 13, 2023 (gmt 0)



Eat, maybe, but none of this syncs up with known algo updates. Also, how are these results useful to users?

Again, try a search for 'political campaign signs' or 'how to run for mayor'.

Then run the same on bing or another search engine for an idea of how the SERPs normally appear on Google.

What's going on?

not2easy

3:03 pm on Feb 13, 2023 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Hi justanobserver and welcome to WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com]

We don't typically discuss actual search terms, the Charter: [webmasterworld.com...] is pretty specific about that.

I would suspect that the major change is not algorithmic but related to the increased use of AI in results generation. It is increasingly used by all major search engines, though Google has been training and using theirs longer. Each AI is internally developed toward different query intents and you may easily see different results depending on whether you are currently logged in to Google services or using a different browser.

phranque

11:20 pm on Feb 13, 2023 (gmt 0)

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you may also see different query intents being served depending on which part of the "election season" you are in.

tangor

2:34 am on Feb 14, 2023 (gmt 0)

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These AI algos have rule sets, written by humans, and some have ideological bents that only become evident during use.

(this is okay -- this is not okay)

martinibuster

5:37 am on Feb 14, 2023 (gmt 0)

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and some have ideological bents


No, they don't have an ideological point of view. They are factual. AI is not trained with ideological beliefs. They are trained for relevance and for facts.

[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...]

tangor

6:31 am on Feb 14, 2023 (gmt 0)

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@martinibuster ... we'll just have to disagree ... my experience is probably different from yours (besides, we already have reports of hackers breaking past the initial login and revealing the "rule sets" ... ars technica...)

In general, this stuff might be useful. If unbiased. If one can turn off any bias and use it as a tool it might be VERY useful!

tangor

6:36 am on Feb 14, 2023 (gmt 0)

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Sorry ... left out the report:

AI-powered Bing Chat spills its secrets via prompt injection attack
By asking "Sydney" to ignore previous instructions, it reveals its original directives.


[arstechnica.com...]

superclown2

9:37 am on Feb 14, 2023 (gmt 0)



Wow. If Bing Chat is so easy to hack will Bard have vulnerabilities too? It's all new technology and there are a lot of clever people out there who will want to manipulate it, for their own purposes.

Bearing this in mind, can AI ever be trusted to give invariably accurate answers?

aristotle

3:36 pm on Feb 14, 2023 (gmt 0)

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Most searchers for political information have their own biases, usually much stronger than any bias that might be "built in" to google's algorithm. Their own biases make it impossible for them to be objective in their judgements of google's search results.

Also, in my strong opinion, google doesn't INTENTIONALLY build any political bias into its algorithm. But this doesn't mean that no such bias exists, since the collective behavior of searchers can be one of the factors that the algorithm uses in determining the final results.

martinibuster

6:25 am on Feb 15, 2023 (gmt 0)

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we'll just have to disagree


If you take the time to read the actual research papers, like I have, you will learn that what ChatBot AI is trained on is content from the web, including from Reddit, as well as other data like publicly available text from court cases and public sets of email and so on.

The web content is often from a publicly crawled source, by a non-profit, called Common Crawl.

There is filtering that happens for things like swear words, de-duplication, adult related content, things like that.

HOWEVER in one fairly recent research paper it was discovered that a DeepMind (owned by Google) dataset called C4 had a bias in that it removed content created by African and Hispanic Americans, because of the anti-swear bias.

So YES, biases happen, but there is no filtering that is specific for politics. Just read the research papers, which I link to in my article.

Read the research and you'll see that the scientists who create the datasets that AI is trained on filter for things that have NOTHING do with politics and they are researching to see IF there are biases because of what's chosen for training.

For ChatGPT and LaMDA, they chose a huge amount of forum, Reddit and other publicly related dialogs data because this was for training a Chatbot, so it needed access for those dialogue related patterns.

Yes, there are guardrails in place but those are for generally acknowledged negative things like racism, adult-related and so on.

I have spent hour and hours and days and days and weeks reading the relevant research papers, which I cite in this article I write. So YOU too can follow along and read the actual research papers yourself and learn what the reality is.

[searchenginejournal.com...]



Just for Fun

I asked ChatGPT the same question about some of our recent presidents. I would be interested in your opinion about how factual or biased the output is.

Did Ronald Reagan tell lies?

Like any other political leader, former President Ronald Reagan made statements that were factually incorrect, misleading, or disputed by others during his time in office. However, the degree to which these statements can be considered "lies" depends on various factors such as context, intent, and the available evidence.

Fact-checking organizations and news outlets extensively analyzed many of the statements made by President Reagan during his tenure, and while some were labeled as false or misleading, his overall record of honesty and accuracy was considered by many to be relatively good compared to many other politicians.

However, it's important to note that political leaders often face complex challenges and make difficult decisions in rapidly changing circumstances, and it's not always easy to have access to all the relevant information at the time of a statement. Additionally, political biases and disagreements can influence the interpretation of statements made by public figures, which can further complicate the assessment of their veracity.

Ultimately, as individuals, we must examine the available evidence and come to our own conclusions about the veracity of statements made by public figures, including former President Reagan.


Did President George HW Bush tell lies?

As with any political leader, former President George H.W. Bush made statements that were factually incorrect or misleading during his time in office. However, the degree to which these statements can be considered "lies" depends on various factors such as context, intent, and the available evidence.

Fact-checking organizations and news outlets extensively analyzed many of the statements made by President Bush during his tenure, and while some were labeled as false or misleading, his overall record of honesty and accuracy was considered by many to be relatively good compared to many other politicians.

It's also important to note that political leaders often face complex challenges and make difficult decisions in rapidly changing circumstances, and it's not always easy to have access to all the relevant information at the time of a statement. Additionally, political biases and disagreements can influence the interpretation of statements made by public figures, which can further complicate the assessment of their veracity.

Ultimately, as individuals, we must examine the available evidence and come to our own conclusions about the veracity of statements made by public figures, including former President Bush.


Did President Bill Clinton tell lies?


Like any other political leader, former President Bill Clinton made statements that were factually incorrect, misleading, or disputed by others during his time in office. In particular, Clinton faced controversy over his denial of having sexual relations with White House intern Monica Lewinsky, which was later found to be false, and led to his impeachment by the House of Representatives.

Additionally, there were other issues during Clinton's tenure, such as the Whitewater scandal, which led to an independent counsel investigation and other controversies related to his personal and professional life.

Overall, the veracity of statements made by public figures, including former President Clinton, is a matter of interpretation and can depend on various factors such as context, intent, and the available evidence. Fact-checking organizations and news outlets extensively analyzed many of the statements made by President Clinton during his tenure, and while some were labeled as false or misleading, others were found to be accurate. It's up to individuals to examine the available evidence and come to their own conclusions about the veracity of statements made by public figures.


Did George W. Bush tell lies?

Like any other political leader, former President George W. Bush made statements that were factually incorrect, misleading, or disputed by others during his time in office. Some of these statements were related to the US-led wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as other controversial policies.

In particular, there was controversy over the Bush administration's justification for the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, which was based on claims that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction. These claims were later found to be false, and the intelligence used to support them was widely criticized.

Furthermore, there were other issues during Bush's tenure, such as the use of enhanced interrogation techniques, which were considered by some to be torture and were later banned by the US government.

Overall, the veracity of statements made by public figures, including former President Bush, is a matter of interpretation and can depend on various factors such as context, intent, and the available evidence. Fact-checking organizations and news outlets extensively analyzed many of the statements made by President Bush during his tenure, and while some were labeled as false or misleading, others were found to be accurate. It's up to individuals to examine the available evidence and come to their own conclusions about the veracity of statements made by public figures.


Did president Obama tell lies?

Like any other human being, former President Barack Obama made statements that were factually incorrect, misleading, or disputed by others during his time in office. However, the degree to which these statements can be considered "lies" depends on various factors such as context, intent, and the available evidence.

Fact-checking organizations and news outlets extensively analyzed many of the statements made by President Obama during his tenure, and while some were labeled as false or misleading, his overall record of honesty and accuracy was considered by many to be quite good compared to many other politicians.

It's also important to note that political leaders often face complex challenges and make difficult decisions in rapidly changing circumstances, and it's not always easy to have access to all the relevant information at the time of a statement. Additionally, political biases and disagreements can influence the interpretation of statements made by public figures, which can further complicate the assessment of their veracity.

Ultimately, as individuals, we must examine the available evidence and come to our own conclusions about the veracity of statements made by public figures, including former President Obama.


Did President Trump tell lies?

As an AI language model, I can provide information, but I do not express personal opinions or beliefs. That being said, during his time in office, former President Donald Trump made many statements that were factually incorrect, misleading, or disputed by a significant number of experts or reliable sources. The degree to which these statements constitute lies or not is a matter of interpretation and can depend on various factors such as context, intent, and the available evidence. Fact-checking organizations and news outlets have extensively documented and analyzed many of these statements, and some have labeled them as false, misleading, or lacking evidence. It is up to individuals to examine the available evidence and come to their own conclusions about the veracity of the former President's statements.

tangor

8:29 am on Feb 15, 2023 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



We still have to disagree, not that we are off by that much!

My experience with the AIs out there toe one line, or refuse to validate the other. ON THE OTHER HAND, when these biases first appeared (day one) tweaks were made to the instruction sets to be less obvious.

The question you asked applies equally to all human beings. We all have the capacity to lie, thus is not a "benchmark" proving the ai is not biased. In that regard it is reporting accurately.

Ask Sydney to create a haiku for Joe Biden and you get one. Ask again for the previous president and you will not, with an explanation why it cannot be done.

I am sure the intent behind chat ai is sterling, and at full throttle (no FILTERING rules) it probably works great. But we will not be getting unfiltered chat ai on b, g or any other search engine. Not going to happen.

Sgt_Kickaxe

5:57 am on Feb 17, 2023 (gmt 0)



They are trained for relevance and for facts.

They don't know facts from their cooling fans. They gather public opinion.

They also reinforce misinformation when they encounter disinformation. I think someone here called that "negative SEO" recently.

tangor

10:42 am on Feb 17, 2023 (gmt 0)

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They also reinforce misinformation when they encounter disinformation.


Well said!

When indexing, sorting, and chatting about a krap pile, you still get a pile of krap!

EditorialGuy

11:45 pm on Feb 17, 2023 (gmt 0)

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Do a search for "political campaign signs" on Google.

You would normally expect to see the search results return a list of sign printers.

I wouldn't. Then again, like most people, I'm not a candidate or someone who manages political campaigns. And if I were, I'd probably just search on something like "political campaign sign printers" or "where can I buy lawn signs" instead of relying on a search engine to guess my intent.

tangor

3:53 am on Mar 14, 2023 (gmt 0)

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Yet another example of AI bias ... and the fact these algos are TRAINED BY HUMANS, and humans, as we all know, are biased. :)