Forum Moderators: buckworks
paypal stops two of my bank transfers and refunds this guy his money.
1st call: had to go through the steps of typing account information into my phone pad, etc. etc.
after finally reaching a human, this person had absolutely no clue what just happened to the account... put me on hold, and hung up on me.
after calling back and going through the steps, the guy explained how to release the funds back into my bank account.
firstly: the check cleared TODAY before i even had a chance to turn the computer on, i had no idea the check cleared!
WHY WAS HE ABLE TO OPEN A DISPUTE THE VERY DAY THE FUNDS CLEARED AND WERE RELEASED TO THE SELLER?
everything else besides that fact is trivial.
i'm sure there's sellers out there that have customers' orders packaged before their check clears and they throw them out the door the second they're marked clear.
i'd be out of the money if i'd already sent this guys stuff. lucky for me i wasn't able to get to a computer until 5pm today.
the fancy little talk window is there that allows the seller and buyer to communicate, but what purpose does this really serve if the funds have already been removed from the seller's account?
That's odd, then. I wouldn't think that the system would automatically refund your money, but it might have placed the amount on hold while waiting for you to respond. (Yes, since PayPal will even tell you not to ship until the eCheck clears, it's strange that the customer can open the claim, but I don't think the system enforces a wait period on those at this time.)
If it was just waiting for a tracking number, the funds might have been put on hold, but it should have given you an option and timeframe to respond - did it? If not, are you sure the claim was "item not received", or could it possibly have been claimed as a fraudulent transaction?
So the customer did not claim it was fraudulent, and was filing a claim for not having received the item?
That's odd, then. I wouldn't think that the system would automatically refund your money
(Yes, since PayPal will even tell you not to ship until the eCheck clears, it's strange that the customer can open the claim, but I don't think the system enforces a wait period on those at this time.)
If it was just waiting for a tracking number, the funds might have been put on hold, but it should have given you an option and timeframe to respond - did it?
i note the part that states:
Sometimes buyers open a non receipt dispute too soon because they
underestimate how long it can take for shipping and delivery.
If not, are you sure the claim was "item not received", or could it possibly have been claimed as a fraudulent transaction?
they don't waste any time moving money around that doesn't belong to them. they try to come off as safe and secure to the buyers, but what are they doing for the sellers? making them go insane?
paypal would be nowhere if it wasn't for the sellers accepting paypal as a payment option.. you'd think they would have seniority because of that fact.
the sellers always the assumed bad party in any transaction.. i don't understand that.
[edited by: lorax at 11:34 am (utc) on Aug. 4, 2006]
the sellers always the assumed bad party in any transaction.. i don't understand that.
I can assure you that's not the case, although I know you can't necessarily see that when looking at a single disputed transaction. I don't work in the dispute resolution section, so even I'm not clear on all policy details, but the one time I had to file a dispute (as a buyer) they gave the seller several days to respond before finally deciding the case in my favor (the seller simply didn't respond).
PayPal knows that there are sometimes issues caused by buyers, sometimes caused by sellers, and in some cases, just misunderstandings around a single payment. The dispute resolution process is designed to discover which of those happens to be the cause of a given dispute and resolve it as best as possible, but it's not a perfect science at this point.
but paypal has been around for a while, why haven't they figured out how to work their system so it's fair to both buyers and sellers? years and years of trial and error have been available, and they haven't used them.
in this case, the money was removed from my account the moment the complaint was filed. i didn't even have a chance to offer a tracking number (if i had already sent it).. so in my eyes, paypal saw me as the bad guy and grabbed the cash thinking i was going to run off.
i have a very clean selling record, of course i have a few smudges, every single one due to misunderstandings or unscrupulous buyers; but the % of clear transactions to bad is astronomical. why doesn't paypal take a seller's record in to account when handling disputes?
as a buyer, i've only been ripped off using paypal twice. i hardly ever use paypal because i sell products i'm interested in, so i can get just about anything i want at wholesale cost.
1st time i was ripped off i gave the guy something like 28 days to send me the stuff. he never did, i filed a complaint and paypal waited about 7 days or so before telling me they couldn't recover the funds from this guys account. never heard back from it again.
2nd time was a similar instance, but off of ebay. the seller had amazing feedback at this point but after i sent payment he stopped responding to messages and disappeared. they were able to recover up to $13 of my purchase, but that was it. the red bubble is still lingering at the top of my account, nearly 2 years later.
3rd time i ended up being fully refunded for. only because i think this guy made a living off his ebay store and he couldn't accept credit cards any other way so he re-opened his paypal account.
O yea Goggle isn't trusted. That's a joke if I ever heard one... Could it be locking out the competition....
this guy's account is just a drop in the bucket there are 1000's like this every day..
luckily, the bank account i use to transfer funds from paypal is emptied as soon as i get the money and put into an account paypal doesn't have access to.
at least, if they're going to try and ruin my business, i'll only be at loss for a few hundred dollars instead of thousands :)
ebay has lost a lot of people's sense of trust over the years due to the amount of fraud and bootlegging they let go on. (which is excellent for my business, because i do not sell on ebay!)
so any bad rep ebay gets is automatically going to bleed over into paypal.
i've had buyers tell me they will not buy from me if all i accept is paypal for credit card transactions because they do not trust it.
O yea Goggle isn't trusted. That's a joke if I ever heard one... Could it be locking out the competition....
something paypal needs is competition, badly. once they start seeing their customers trickle over to competitors, maybe they'll do something about this type of problem.
We've had a very hard time with paypal over this in the past.. and people just do not understand that if they use an e-check that it's not immediate payment to us.
Oh .. on the google checkout and ebay .. If I were google, I'd stop spidering ebay pages unless they accepted the google checkout.
[edited by: Bewenched at 4:17 am (utc) on Aug. 7, 2006]
i wasn't able to get to a computer until 5pm today
so the buyer waited from July 28 to Aug 3, ie 7 days, without any communciation from the seller? and the seller is surprised that the buyer took action?
so the buyer waited from July 28 to Aug 3, ie 7 days, without any communciation from the seller? and the seller is surprised that the buyer took action?
do you not want people to sleep or do other things involving work?
unfortunately, i cannot sit on a computer 24/7 waiting for customers to correspond.
(for THAT day) 5 pm was the first time it was turned on!
to answer your question on a serious note, the buyer received the following messages:
1) notification from paypal outlining purchase, with the business / customer support contacts
2) notification from my website outlining purchase and contacts
3) email notifying the customer the order will be pending until the e-check clears
