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We've relied mostly on used user-suggested categories to build our list of about 500 or so, but honestly, it now resembles quite a hodge-podge and doesn't follow any easy to understand logic. We have long wanted to replace the category stucture with something more logical, but where to start?
Of course the mother of all category structures in found in the DMOZ, but my understanding is that if you use even just the category structure you would have to put their editor box on each page which uses the category stucture (basically every page in the directory).
What do you use for your category list in your directory? Am I missing something obvious here?
Here's an original idea, if you are really up for an interesting exercise, are courageous and really want to "do the community thing".
Post your taxonomy on your website - just the organizational structure - and ask the members to help you "sort it out".
In fact, just as a fun exercise, you have my express invitation to put up the guts of the structure - all 500 subsections - here to see if we could see a big picture and agree upon how it might be organized. That could be a really interesting excercise - to see how "insiders" and "outsiders" might organize the same world. It might also benefit you in the long run.
Got game?
I'm willing. Might be like solving a big puzzle. I'm sure others would play.
Courage, man, courage. ;0)
Classify and organize your subject matter and, by so doing, your website's directory structure.
[nkos.slis.kent.edu...]
Onya
Woz
Once this reaches mass promotion, a directory will become uncontrollable to manage with all the untargeted stuff, and doomed from then on. I don't know how they do this, but am amazed that dmoz hasn't become a total mess of mixed and spam results pages, due to the many categories they have.
I haven't attempted what you are doing, and that's only because of the sheer work load that surely awaits trying to get these directories filled. Many directories fail through lack of finance and motivation, the will-power to keep plugging away and lack of cashflow are the least of your problems.
Getting this filled is the hardest battle to win, and will be wasted if you pick the wrong directory area. I know someone that runs a search engine (like Google) and it started off life as a directory, so know what he went through to build it up.
Good luck.
The problem with "user-suggested categories" is you'll just get folks choosing categories that fit THEIR site keywords, which isn't very helpful for the rest of your advertisers.
What about the users? ;)
A directory by nature should have a clear and easy to navigate structure (taxonomy). I think planning the structure in the most logical way is 98% of the "fun" of directories. It's what makes your directory stand out among the rest (whether good or bad). I would NEVER let submitters dictate either the taxonomy (including category names) or the listing "title" format or descriptions. A good editor can write a description to a listing much better than 99% of the site/listing owners. As long as you start out or rectify so every listing is created equally (using the same format) people are usually more than happy when you end up using 1% of what they actually submitted.
edited/added
After re-reading the OP, the easiest way to create subcategories is on a "need" basis.
Example: Say you have a Topical category Shopping and under that one of your main categories is Furniture. After a while that category might contain either one long page or a few pages (depending on how you are displaying them) of dozens of Furniture stores. It is then logical and "user friendly" to start breaking this down into subcategories as you may notice you have 5 or 6 listings that specialize in Outdoor furniture and another 5 or 6 for Dining room furniture. You simply create the categories Dining Room and Outdoor under Furniture. You then have a taxonomy of Furniture>>Dining Room and Furniture>>Outdoor. Very simple thought process and it is the same process in use at dmoz etc. In the end, you may end up with nothing listed directly in Shopping>>Furniture and that's OK ;)
[edited by: The_Contractor at 9:19 pm (utc) on July 31, 2007]
In fact, just as a fun exercise, you have my express invitation to put up the guts of the structure - all 500 subsections - here to see if we could see a big picture and agree upon how it might be organized.
That would be nearly impossible in my opinion without see the existing listings within each category. Meaning he could could post a structure and it doesn't do any good to create an empty shell. There are enough of those types of directories already out there...hehe
For instance he may not need to break down a category even if it was Shopping if he only has 15 listings in there. It works the other way and he may have to break down into Shopping >> Home and Garden >>Furnishings >> Dining Room or the site may dictate United Kingdom >>Shopping >> Home and Garden >>Furnishings >> Dining Room >> Contemporary as it all depends on how large the directory really is (number of listings). The number of listings dictates the extent of the taxonomy and that is why it should/will always evolve on a site. Users don't want to scroll through 100's of "uncategorized" Shopping sites no more than they want to click 12 times through barren categories to find zero or one listing way down deep.
[edited by: The_Contractor at 9:39 pm (utc) on July 31, 2007]
For instance he may not need to break down a category even if it was Shopping if he only has 15 listings in there.
This is definately not the issue as I have nearly 350,000 URL's listed, and 15,000 under shopping. As I said, this is a large directory.
It only lists categories when there are listings found in them, so there is no chance of happening onto a stub. It also breaks down the listings by parent category / sub-category and Country / State-Province / City so each listing has the potential to be listed under 11 headings.
I think I have some pretty cool innovations which I haven't seen anyone else try, but I just can't seem to get a handle on the categories, which is of course of the utmost importance in a directory.
I'm still working on parsing out my category list...
[edited by: dataguy at 10:35 pm (utc) on July 31, 2007]
-- Advertising & Marketing -----
Ad Specialties
Direct Mail
Email Marketing
Sales Coaching
Telemarketing
-- Animals & Pets ---------------------
Cats
Dogs
Horses / Livestock
Other Pets
Pet Supplies
Reptiles
-- Arts & Crafts -----------------------
Art Organizations
Body Art, Tattoos, Piercing
Calligraphy
Crafts
Digital Art
Fine Art
Galleries
Museums
Photography
Poetry
Prints
Quilting / Sewing
ScrapBooking
Sculptures / Sculpturing
-- Automotive & Marine ------------
Aviation/Aircraft
Boats/Marine
Cars & Trucks
DIY Automotive Repair
Drivers Education
Motorcycles
Parts & Accessories
Racing
Recreational Vehicles
Rentals
Sports Untility Vehicles
Tools and Supplies
-- Books/Media ---------------------------
Books
Internet Broadcasting
Literature
Magazines
News
Online Audio
Online Video
Radio / Audio
Television / Video
-- Business Opportunities -------
Affiliate Programs
MLM
Network Marketing
-- Business Services ----------------
Accounting
Business Development
Business-To-Business
Cleaning / Janitorial
Productivity Tools
Shipping
Transportation
Utilities
Wholesale/Drop-ship
-- Commercial Products ------------
Classroom Equipment/Products
Construction Equipment
Medical Equipment & Supplies
-- Computers ------------------------------
Computer Repair
Computer Support
DIY Computer Upgrade/Repair
Hardware
Networking
Peripherals
Printer Supplies
Software
Technology Consulting
-- Education ------------------------------
Child Education
College
Diploma / GED
Home Schooling
Languages
Professional
Technical Training
-- Electronics ---------------------------
Cell Phones / Pagers
Consumer Electronics
Electronic Repair
Ham Radio
Industrial Electronics
Telephone services
-- Employment ----------------------------
Career Counselling
Contract Work
Head Hunters
Job Boards
Pre-Employment Screening
-- Entertainment -----------------------
Adult Entertainment
Childrens Parties
Dance
Dining/Restaurants
Humor
Magic / Magicians
Movies
Music
Musicians & Bands
Orchestras
Sports
Theatre
Trivia
-- Family Fun ----------------------------
Baby Websites
Children Websites
Family Websites
Vacation Websites
Websites for Parents
Websites for Teens
Wedding Websites
-- Fashion ----------------------------------
Children's Clothing
Clothing
Cosmetics/Fragrance
Handbags
Jewelry
Other Fashion
Shoes
-- Financial ------------------------------
Banking/Trading
Credit & Debt Counselling
Credit Cards
Financial Planning
Insurance
Investment
Loans
Personal Finance
Tax Services
-- Food & Drinks -----------------------
Coffee
Gourmet
Groceries
Juice / Juicers
Recipe's
Wine & Spirits
-- Games -------------------------------------
Chess
Educational Games
PC Games
Roleplaying
Video Games
-- General Services ------------------
Personal Concierge
Pest Control
-- Gifts & Flowers -------------------
Baskets
Care Packages
Collectibles
Flowers
Gifts
Greeting Cards
-- Government ----------------------------
City Websites
County Websites
Legislative Reform
Other Government Websites
State Websites
Substance Abuse Treatment
-- Health & Beauty -------------------
Bath & Body
Cosmetics
Day Spas
Diet & Nutrition
Exercise
General Counseling
Hair Products
Health & Fitness Clubs
Health Food
Men's Health
Nutritional Supplements
Self Help
Therapeutic Massage
Women's Health
-- Healthcare ----------------------------
Alternative
Clinics
Dental
Eyecare/Eyewear
Hospitals
Medical Research
Pharmaceuticals
Pharmacies
Plastic / Reconstructive Surgery
-- Hobbies ----------------------------------
Coin / Stamp Collecting
Model Airplanes
Model Cars / Trucks
Remote Control Vehicles
Woodworking
-- Home Life ------------------------------
Consumer Information
Cooking
Family
Home Organizing
Interior Decorating
Landscaping
-- Home Services -----------------------
Drywall
Electrical / Wiring
Foundation Repair
Plumbing / Septic Systems
Wall Framing
Water Filtration
Window / Door Replacement
-- Industrial Products ------------
Air Conditioning / Heat
Occupational Health & Safety
-- Internet --------------------------------
Chat
Email
Free Hosting
Internet Service Providers
MP3 / Music
Search Engines
Web Directory
Web Hosting/Servers
-- Manufacturing -----------------------
Chemicals
Electronics Manufacturing
Furniture
Leather Goods
Petro Chemical
Plastic Products
Steel Products
Stone / Masonry
Textile / Clothing
Tools
Wooden Products
-- News ---------------------------------------
Media
Newspapers
Weather
-- Personal Services ----------------
Barbershops
Childcare
Dry Cleaning
House Keeping / Cleaning
-- Professional -------------------------
Accounting
Actors/Models
Architectural
Court Reporting
Editorial Services
Engineering
Illustrators
Legal - Business
Legal - Intellectual Property
Legal - Personal
Medical
Psychology
Technical Writers
Wedding Services
-- Public Service ---------------------
Air Force
Army
Fire Fighters
Homeland Security
Marines
Navy
Police / Sheriff
Political Office
-- Real Estate ---------------------------
Apartments
Construction Services
DIY Home Repair/Remodeling
For Sale by Owner
General Advice
Home Buying
Home Loans / Mortgages
Real Estate Services
-- Recreation & Leisure ----------
Astrology
Betting/Gaming
Communities
Events
Gardening
Genealogy/Family History
Matchmaking/Dating
New Age
Outdoors
Party Supplies
-- Reference ------------------------------
Do it Yourself (DIY)
Education
History
Libraries
Maps
Translation Services
-- Science & Technology ----------
Archaeology
Astronomy
Biology
Energy
Environment
Home Automation
Paranormal
Physics
Research & Development
-- Shopping --------------------------------
Antiques
Auction
Audio-Visual Equipment
Baby Items
Bed & Bath
Candles
Classifieds
Clocks & Watches
Discount / Clearance
Dolls & Teddy Bears
Furniture
Glassware
Home & Garden
Jewelry
Memorabilia
Musical Instruments
Office Supplies / Products
Satellite Equipment & Systems
Security Equipment
Shopping Malls
Tobacco
Toys
Used Goods
Virtual Malls
-- Society ----------------------------------
Blogs / Blogging
Churches & Ministry
Fan Clubs
Fundraising
Historical Organizations
Non-Profit/Charities
Opinions
People
Political Viewpoint
Religion and Spirituality
Sign Language
-- Sports & Fitness ------------------
Auto Racing
Baseball
Basketball
Bicycling
Boxing
Fishing
Fitness / Exercise
Football
Golf
Hockey
Hunting
Karate
Martial Arts
Other Sports
Self-Defense
Skiing / Jetskiing
Soccer
Sports Organizations
Tae Kwon Do
Tennis
WaterSports
-- Travel ------------------------------------
Accessories
Airfare
Auto Rental
Bed & Breakfast
Camping
Cruises
Destinations
Honeymoon Destinations
Hotels & Motels
Limousine Hire
Luggage
Tours
Vacation Packages
Vacation Rentals
-- Web Services -------------------------
Advice & Discussions
Banner/Link Advertising
Domain Names
eCommerce Support
Logo/Graphics Design
Merchant Services
Profiting from Your Web Site
Search Engine Marketing/SEO
Traffic Exchanges
Web Design
Web Traffic Suppliers
Website Advertising & Promotion
-- Work at Home -------------------------
Freelance/Contract
Online Opportunities
Telemarketing
A special prize goes to the first person to correctly identify the sub category which appears under 2 different parent categories (eeek!) Seriously, we have a seperate search engine which is used just to search categories.
Currently we only have 2 levels of categories, Parent and SubCat. This is a major part of the problem and we will be migrating to unlimited subs when we figure out what to base the taxonomy on.
I can add to this that we are testing Bayesian Inference to verify categories and we hope to eventually not require webmasters to pick their categories as they will be able to be suggested automatically. During our testing we have found that several categories are so vague that Bayesian Inference doesn't work, (such as B2B). We've also uncovered problems like the Marketing and Advertising category attracts a lot of webmasters who are advertising their sites, not advertising agencies (duh).
Help! I need a category makeover!
This is definately not the issue as I have nearly 350,000 URL's listed
And you have 401 categories/subcategories which my calculator says is averaging over 872 listings in each category....ouch...so much for user friendly...hehe (please take that as constructive criticism).
The problem I see right off the bat is that you have several Topical categories, which should be subcategories of other Topical categories and subcategories (Gifts & Flowers, Food & Drinks, Fashion, Pet supplies etcetera look like Shopping to me, but I could be wrong). Things like:
-- Healthcare ----------------------------
Alternative
Clinics
Dental
Eyecare/Eyewear
Hospitals
Medical Research
Pharmaceuticals
Pharmacies
Plastic / Reconstructive Surgery
should be listed as a subcategory of Health & Beauty and shopping sites/stores should be under a Health & Beauty category of Shopping etcetera.
You need to sort out all sites /listings that are stores/shopping and get them under Shopping and sort out all "informative" sites into proper "informational" topical categories, then crosslink/@link the information categories with their respective shopping categories and visa-versa.
With that many listings and that broad of a directory (without getting into regional categorization) you will probably have literally 1000's of categories/subcategories if properly organized/categorized.
Categories Like Travel >> Hotels & Motels Should be something like Travel >> Lodging >>Hotels & Motels (broke down by lodging type) and then broke down into regional or it is completely useless to visitors. The other option is to break it down by regional first like Travel >> Lodging >> Nebraska or Travel >> Lodging >> USA >> Nebraska or Travel >> USA >> Lodging >> Nebraska >> Hotels & Motels. There are way too many variables that are dependent on how many listings you have for each category on how to answer your taxonomy effectively.
Needless to say you have a long job ahead of you and if I started adding my 2-cents on how to structure your site, clients may see it and get upset with me…hehe
[edited by: The_Contractor at 12:58 am (utc) on Aug. 1, 2007]
Um, no, actually you need to define how you are going to generate your categories, then all will fall in place.
Consider building a vehicle. One could assemble a collection of parts and then try and put them together, and one may or may not end up with a usable car. Without any preparation and planning though the odds will be agin you. The engine you bought might be a good one but does it use available fuel? Does it connect to the drive shaft? And so on.
So, with all due respect, the code dump of your categories is somewhat useless until you put into place policies and procedures that will determine how you choose your categories and how you will classify your listings. And, as noted above, letting your users choose your categories will end up with a fair representation of a dog's breakfast.
First, you need to quantify the scope of your directory. Is it all encompassing, or focusing on a small and very tight niche, or somewhere in between? Establishing that first of all will help determine how your subject matter will be classified.
Next you need to consider what type of classifying system you need. In the link I referenced above there is a good overview of differing methods of organising knowledge. The two that are perhaps applicable to a Directory system are Taxonomy and Ontology. How are they different? Taxonomies have a Parent-Child relationship and so are restrictive, whereas Ontologies are open structured, much like a Thesaurus, and so are more flexible. Which one you choose will depend on your subject matter. If it is all encompassing then perhaps an ontology would be appropriate, but a smaller niche might do well with a simple taxonomy, but not always.
But not always, because it also depends on what criteria you are going to apply when classifying listings. Consider the subject matter of Widgets. The oft quoted type of widget know as "fuzzy blue widgets" gives us a very good clue as to the various mays of classifying. Are you going to classify widgets by:-
1) Physical Attributes, such as Fuzzy, Soft, Hard, Prickly, and so on, or
2) Colour, such as Blue, Green, Teal, Puce, and so on.
OR, are Widgets themselves but a subsection of "Things" that might also include Wadgets, Wedgets, Wodgets, Wudgets and their distant cousin Wydgets.
What might have seemed a simple taxonomy for a small niche subject might turn out to need a categorical ontology with multiple category connections for listings when the selection criteria are applied.
For example, Films and Movies. When called Films, they are an art form, falling into both the Visual and Aural arts categories. When called Movies they fall perhaps better into the Visual Entertainment category, but then they are also a business. When you define your classification criteria the applicable categories will usually become much clearer, but not always.
So, you can either try and fix the system you have at present, which brings to mind the concepts of pegs and holes, being both square and round, or, and this would be my suggestion, you can go right back to the beginning and spend some time researching classifying systems, researching your subject matter, and setting up your policies and procedures at which time your categories will fall into place themselves much easier both now and in the future.
Onya
Woz
It's very easy to create categories and use the tools out there or integrated with directory management scripts to crawl sites themselves (relying on meta data), import ODP, or scrape search engine results. Sure is fast and sure is sh@t too.
It's a lot harder to come up with the structure and put a policy in place on creating subcategories and crosslinking them etc. It's also a lot harder and more time consuming to add listings by manually reviewing each site and disregarding 99% of what was submitted (title/description, category it was submitted to, or other info). Creating and adhering to a listing policy is a must and should apply to every site in the directory whether it's a friends, your own, free, paid listing, or an advertisement.
I have user suggested categories on my site to, but I am not here to facilitate peoples keyword fancies.... they suggest I think about it....lol if it fits it fits, if it doesnt fit under what they want in my opinion.... then it doesnt fit...lol but I would also look to see if there suggestion could be fit into another similar related section....but at the end of the day my main concern is the flow of my directory structure....
