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Developing an APP to somehow replace another = copyright issues?

Could this get me in trouble?

         

explorador

9:15 pm on Oct 31, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Hi webmasters and developers, I'm not convinced by the title but let me explain. I will mention app names as this has been done in the past so I think it fits the fair use of specifics. Creating a music player similar to Apple iTunes could get me in trouble? What if the goal is making it as similar as possible? even with basic functionality? the intention (honestly) could even be considered a "tribute" or nostalgia app, FAR from creating a clone or to confuse users (that's not intention), but I know legally intentions could become meaningless and it's up to the accusing/offended party to build arguments, so, the situation could become something weird and evil like "this is a design rip off", or something like that. Let me try to explain.

A few years ago I got a Microsoft Surface RT (1 and 2) shipped with Windows 8.1 RT on an ARM processor. Basically you can't run anything there. A small community managed to get Windows 10 running (coo!) and members ported several open source apps to run on this device, so, my little machine became something else. I quite enjoy these, specially for the battery life so I used them quite a lot for writing, reading, editing, and PDF work becoming a serious work machine, but the music players were absolute garbage (including Windows Music) not only for the way it works, but because it's not exactly the ideal tool when you have tons of music files.

Then I decided to create my own music player using C# on Sharp Develop, and then moved to Microsoft Visual Studio, both free versions. My goal went around getting the closest UX experience on the RT platform including looks and functionality, moved my way from beta to beta version and the resulting product is pretty decent, so much I even installed it on my Surface running an Atom processor, my laptop, and my desktop computer. I didn't put any personal data there, also made sure to include a full disclaimer on this app being for FREE use and not related to Apple or iTunes as a product, only meant to get the same feeling on a diff platform with nostalgia involved. I then shared the app and became available in 2 languages, several users from that community tried it and some liked it pretty much.

Context
Key features (I'm not advertising anything, just explaining)
- Similar UX / looks
- Similar functionality
- FAST launch and efficient
- Small footprint requiring little RAM
- Simple, one job: play music and organize (and keep organized) the music collection

Why is it relevant to include those features on this thread? simple, I've used iTunes for years since I worked on Mac computers and then moved (again) to Windows, been using it since the year Apple launched the app (2001). As a regular user, I agree with most complains on the web around iTunes: it became a monster, slow, eating resources and tried to do too much, while it was cool when it was designed/used to mostly play music. I was a Winamp user but, since iTunes, just like other users I had issues moving to a different app, like many others I didn't like the options (I will not list them but trust me I tried anything I could find). Recently browsing the web came across multiple comments of people still on the same page "iTunes was great blah blah until blah blah, I hate what it became etc". Like some of those users I KEEP an older version of iTunes (that's what I use for music playing and conversions) because it's faster, simple, it works.

My app works FASTER <-- that's the thing. And does not involve any background services running in the background.

So, I've been tempted to start again from scratch and create another (improved) version and perhaps release it to the public (making some noise) so others in the same boat enjoy the SIMPLE experience for free. But... there is a difference between a small (almost literally closed) community around a dead Windows platform (both software and hardware), and making this available to the general public. Yes, my original app also runs on x86 and x64, it's just lack exposure. I don't pretend to earn money with this, and yes I would like to share it, and perhaps enjoy having my name there for coding portfolio purposes. I'm open to the idea of donations, but no, money is not the goal AT-ALL.

iTunes is dead, but I don't know if Apple would come after some nobody like me living outside the US and accuse me of silly things. I'm curious regarding other music players that allow skins to the point of looking exactly like iTunes, and to my knowledge they never had any issues with it (Winamp is the top example). Yes, I tried going back to Winamp, but now I can't stand it. Besides looks, the functionality is far from what I'm used to. Whenever I come across comments of people complaining about iTunes and missing the original app, I question myself the dangers of just sharing something that works for me so they can enjoy it too, but sure my app needs some fine tuning, I would make it better.

APP nostalgia can sound silly, but it's a thing. One gets used to certain functions, UX, appearance, and muscle memory becomes strong while using the app. Besides, it's a faster music player. I would have no issues sharing it around the concept of "tribute/nostalgia app".

Yes, I have considered enough UX, colors and appearance changes turning this into an entirely different app, but it would be something far from the original intention. I hope that I made some sense out of my explanation, please share your comments.

explorador

9:19 pm on Oct 31, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



To make some sense out of this, while creating the music APP for Windows RT, I also considered making a Winamp clone, the same thing that I explained with iTunes happened/happens with Winamp: it became something else. But I dropped the idea because I like iTunes way more. Yes, I also considered making a fully flexible app that the user could turn into Winamp or iTunes to avoid sounding specific after iTunes, but that's too much work for me.

tangor

2:05 am on Nov 1, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Did you use any of their code?
Other than look and feel, did you use any trade secrets (theirs, not yours)?

Functionality can't always be patented, a shovel is a shovel, an airplane is an airplane.

Some things are just "what they are". Players are pretty much alike: files, library, play music, etc. These are functions (see above).

CODE, on the other hand, can be copyrighted.

Kind of like the database world. You can copyright some aspects, but you can't copyright the DATA (unless UNIQUE TO YOU AND ONLY YOU).

Goes back to phone books (remember those?).

Not legal advice. What you are asking might require the consult of a copyright/patent attorney.

Meanwhile, something free is just that, no ill will intended. Not a perfect defense, but goes a long way in proving intent.

Wish you luck!

explorador

3:07 am on Nov 1, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



AFAIK all their code is not just proprietary but also secret, absolutely not available. Besides, yes, 100% original code.

I didn't know C# back then (I know other languages) so I took it as a learning project to learn C#. All the code is original, built the whole UX myself by hand, and while it looks 99% the same as iTunes, it's a whole unique app. The final project weights about 5.7MB (full executable ARM/x86x64). The mp3 player itself uses open source free libraries available on the Visual Studio collection repository, modules you can pick and load for your app, took special care selecting the right tools not only for portability and compatibility, but also explicitly free of charge and free to share.

The ID3 tag reader/writer is also open source/free to use share, I actually built my own 100% original, but dropped it due to the issues ID3 tags represent, basically there are diff formats and no universal agreement on how it should work, this means some work some don't work and need patches, so I found a library that does the job well and fast.

Even the UX looks the same (gray metal). Yeah I remember phone books, I understand the meaning of what you mention here.

Thanks for the clear points, I certainly need specific advice in that regard.

tangor

3:17 am on Nov 1, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



IIRC the whole "look and feel" concept has already been settled in law (MS v MAC back in the day, or decades! ago).

Windows (generic, as in visual objects) are difficult to "patent" as they are a function of the underlying OS (again, not legal advice!).

Perhaps you have "invented" a better mousetrap, and intend to give it away for free?

Kudos!

engine

9:33 am on Nov 1, 2022 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



How exciting is that project: Created for yourself, and free to others to use. :)

Yes, you're correct, many players out there are clunky and have little flexibility. I'm sure it all stems from the market domination of iPods and iTunes. The wife had Apple and ended up putting iTunes on the Windows machine of hers, and it was horrible. Years later I finally managed to get rid of iTunes. I used an old Android phone as a music player and she seems happy with the player i've installed.

Back to your project.
Here's the downside: No matter if it's free, if the lawyers at a "certain company" get hold of it the worst they can do is damages and C&D if they can prove loss in sales.
If you've created something better you could get interest, and that's when the lawyers pick up on it. They have no interest in your philanthropy, and only want to defend their client's interest (and make money, of course).

Here's the upside: You get paid by a business to sell it to them and they then take on the risk. Top tip, get yourself a good lawyer that protect your interest and, ideally, the contract pays you a royalty. Or even the "certain company" may want to buy it up from you.