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Copyright - how to find out the owner

deeper

5:38 pm on Jan 8, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Hi,
one of my sites about "personal developement of love" needs a new header image. The site is partly commercial, because I introduce my book and mention the ways to buy it.

"Stairway to heaven" is a famous song of Led Zeppelin and it seems to be one of their former album covers, which everybody can use as desktop wallpaper.

This image could be an excellent starting point for the new header image, which could emerge the middle part of this image (or something similar), my logo and a different, more friendly sky as background.

The official site at www.ledzeppelin.com does not answer my request for copyright. How can I find out the copyright owner? Even if only taking parts of it, I guess I will have to ask for allowance.

Using the image here in Germany, i.e., on a German site, what copyright will I have to consider: German or US copyright laws?

Is it possible for a professional website designer to create something very similar or changing the Led Zeppelin image in order to not harm copyright? As far as I know it depends on how much you change an image.

[edited by: not2easy at 6:36 pm (utc) on Jan 8, 2015]
[edit reason] link snip [/edit]

not2easy

6:43 pm on Jan 8, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Cover art for old record albums is often owned by the recording label, sometimes by the artists who performed. There may be hefty fees for a license to use this kind of art.

Derivatives of copyrighted works are usually covered by the copyright, but similar works are free to make and use. If you know a designer who can do the work my suggestion is that might be the best way to get what you want, guilt free.

lucy24

7:42 pm on Jan 8, 2015 (gmt 0)

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which everybody can use

Careful. "Everybody does use" is not at all the same thing as "everybody is allowed to use".

Led Zeppelin has a pretty solid history of being snarky about copyrights, so I wouldn't try it. Besides, well, Stairway to Heaven? The group itself is sick to death of it! Go outside with your camera and take a picture of some scenery.

ianal, but in general you're bound by the copyright laws of the country the server is located in. Users from other countries are supposed to do their own research and decide whether they're allowed to look at this image / read this book. But that doesn't mean a given piece of content is only protected in its country of origin. It only means that something might be public domain in one place but not (yet) in another. When you're looking at commercially produced material that is less than 50 years old, the chances are pretty much zero that it's public domain anywhere in the world.

deeper

9:58 pm on Jan 8, 2015 (gmt 0)

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@not2easy:
What is a "derivative", are there any solid criteria?

Strange enough, it looks like an album cover, but I couldn't find any evidence for it.

lucy24:

The group itself is sick to death of it!

What do you mean, copyright issues regarding the music or images?

Go outside with your camera and take a picture of some scenery.

Some scenery? It's not hard to find images with similar stairways (looking "real", like Greek temples ect.) and proper sunsets, skies ect., but an angel on his knees, sunlight behind and casting shadows...

not2easy

10:59 pm on Jan 8, 2015 (gmt 0)

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A derivative work in copyright terms means that you start with a copyrighted image or part of one and alter it or part of it. This is like using someone else's image and superimposing some cheesy saying on it to spread around Facebook. Things like that do violate copyright laws if they do not have permission or license to use the image.

You had mentioned working with a logo designer, if you supply your own image and ask them to superimpose a back-lighted angel on it you would be free and clear as long as it does not look like a copyrighted image enough to confuse people.

tangor

11:31 pm on Jan 8, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Think of three famous people in a valley with a sunset that is well=known.

Now find three not famous people, pose them the same way, in a different valley with a sunset.

That is a derivative work.

Copyright laws vary across the world. Some protect their copyright vigorously no matter what part of the world. Pick and choose your battles.

Most times you can get what you want by contacting a local photographer who has models and get EXACTLY what you want... and YOU then own the COPYRIGHT (and the photographer, unless she does it for hire... and the models have signed releases for the use of their image(s)).

Most times this is the less expensive way to get something done... and has the result that YOU own the image.

Samizdata

12:51 am on Jan 9, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Led Zeppelin has a pretty solid history of being snarky about copyrights

They certainly have a solid history of infringing the copyright of others (Willie Dixon, Jake Holmes and Anne Bredon immediately spring to mind).

Conclusion: get a very expensive lawyer.

...

deeper

2:35 pm on Jan 10, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Thanks to all your comments.

You had mentioned working with a logo designer, if you supply your own image and ask them to superimpose a back-lighted angel on it you would be free and clear as long as it does not look like a copyrighted image enough to confuse people.

Logo designer? Some years ago someone who is skilled working with Inkscape made my logo, but it's not his main profession and I have no contact to him. At least four parts must merge to ONE final image. Lights, colours, gradients.... better should be done by an experienced webdesigner. I only know the basics. How much time does an experienced webdesigner need. What do you think?

"Your own image" --> not the cover-stairway, but any different one?

Ultimately nothing from the cover would have been taken then:
-Different background
-Different stairway
-Different angel

Only one of this elements, for example the stairway, could harm copyright?
Probably not easy to consider, I don't intend to take too much risks, I just try to estimate the limits.

not2easy

3:26 pm on Jan 10, 2015 (gmt 0)

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Yes, you have understood that correctly:

A derivative work in copyright terms means that you start with a copyrighted image or part of one and alter it or part of it.

You already have a picture in your mind of what you want, make yours original to avoid risk.